Wimbush family mystery, puzzled for years! Please help!

[littleem1906]

I have in my family tree a Thomas Wimbush (1740-1790). I know that he married Elizabeth Smith in 1765 in London, Southwark. I also know, from Thomas' will that he had at least 2 sons, Benjamin Wimbush (1789-1867) and John Wimbush (1775-?).

However in Thomas' will he mentions his second wife Hannah. It has been widely reported on ancestry sites and family trees (though all unsourced) that her maiden name was Coleman but I cannot find a marriage record for her marriage to Thomas. Again on ancestry sites some people have put a marriage date for 1772 but this is unsourced. I have always believed that Hannah was the mother of this sons but without knowing when he married her I cannot be sure. I believe his first wife Elizabeth Smith died in 1821, as I found a death record for her (named Elizabeth Wimbush) and the estimated year of birth matches the year she was born (1740).

There is another mystery. Henry Wimbush (1780-1844) is widely reported (on ancestry sites and family trees) to be another son of Thomas Wimbush. However he is not mentioned in Thomas' will. I have not found a birth/christening record of Henry to confirm his parentage (nor have I found birth/christening records for Thomas' other sons for that matter either).

Is there anyone who can help me with the following things
1) Was Henry a son of Thomas? Any birth records to prove it?
2) When did Thomas marry Hannah Coleman?
3) Did Thomas have children with Elizabeth prior to his marriage to Hannah?
4) Are there any birth records for Thomas' sons?

Kind regards

Emma

[lizdb]

Something is not tying up with the dates you give

If Thomas dies in 1790 (age 50ish) and son Benjamin was born 1789, and Thomas mentions wife as Hannah in will (which must by definition have been written prior to 1790 even if a death bed will) then it is highly likely Hannah is the mum of Benjamin - he hardly had time between Ben's birth and his own death for one wife to die, remarry another and write a will!

But, if in the will written before 1790, he talks of second wife, then first wife Elizabeth could not have died in 1821.
Unless they were divorced(exremely unlikely in that era) she must have died prior to 1790.
Given the gap between the boys births, it is probable, but of course by no means definite that John bn 1775 is from first marriage, and Ben bn 14 yrs later in 1789 is from second marriage.
That puts his second marriage (possibly) between these dates.
Do you know from later censuses where the boys were born? That will give an idea of whether Thomas stayed in the same area.
Then it will be a case of trawling parish records for all parishes in that sort of area for the boys christeneings, Thomas' marriage to Hannah, and any more chritenings of any more children of either marriage.
I cant see anytihng on online records, but they are not complete.
Do you live near London?

[Valda]

Hi

The Benjamin Wimbush who died in Banbury registration district in 1867 aged 78 states on the 1861 census he was born in Bourton Oxfordshire (69 on that census, 59 in 1851 confirming his birthplace). He lives in Warmington Warwickshire which is covered by Banbury registration district. On the 1851 census there are two Benjamin Wimbushes. The other was aged 73 and born in Tingewick Buckinghamshire (living there) and also there in 1841. There seems no obvious death registration for that Benjamin. Neither man's baptism is on the IGI.

The Thomas Wimbush who married Hannah Coleman 5th August 1772 in Culworth, Northamptonshire had according to this tree at least one son called Thomas who died in Little Bourton Oxfordshire

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=sknowles&id=I43389


How has it been proved that the Northamptonshire/Oxfordshire Wimbush family connects to the London Wimbush family? If it has been proven and Elizabeth was still alive at the time of the marriage to Hannah then the marriage would undoubtedly be bigamous since only the extremely rich could afford the Act of Parliament that would be necessary at the time to obtain a divorce.

The Elizabeth Wimbush who died in 1821 seems to have left a will

London Consistory Court - held at the LMA
probated February 1821
Elizabeth Wimbush widow
New Brentford Middlesex
Formerly of Bankside Southwark Surrey
Microfilm reference X019/029 folio 101

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Records_and_archives/About_LMA/Volunteers.htm

If you can't visit the LMA you would either be able to order it from them, or since it is on microfilm possibly order the film and view at your local Family History Centre (not sure whether they hold copies of these wills)

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp


On Thomas marriage to Elizabeth Smith which looks to be by licence (licence held by LMA) he is Thomas junior

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/wills/

Wimbush Thomas (Junior) 1765 Aug 21 Bachelor , Saint Saviour, co. Surry , married Elizabeth Smith

Does this marriage in Southwark mean the two Wimbush Prerogative Court of Canterbury wills in St Mary Newington Southwark are related?

Will of Thomas Wimbush, Gentleman of Saint Mary Newington , Surrey 27 February 1776 PROB 11/1017
Will of Susanna Wimbush, Widow of Saint Mary Newington , Surrey 23 August 1788 PROB 11/1169 

If so since Susanna's will was proved in 1788 it may hold useful information.


Regards

Valda

[Tricia_2]

You may already have this ~ I found it on Family Search's 'Record Search':

Thomas Wimbush, son of Thomas Wimbush ~ Christened 3 June 1766, at St Saviour, Southwark.

[Just Kia]

Susanna's Will on the TNA is incomplete. I have emailed them about this and am waiting for a reply.

May I ask where you found the Will for Thomas (1740-1790) please?

[Just Kia]

I can say for sure now that Thomas Wimbush did marry Hannah Coleman 5th August 1772 at Culworth. It's in the parish registers at Northampton Record Office - Fiche: Culworth 94p/5 2c entry No.63. Both were noted as being of Culworth. Thomas signed, Hannah made her mark.

Their children:
Mary daughter of Thomas and Hannah Wimbush born Jan 2, bp Jan 9 1773/74 (married Ambrose Durrant)
Hannah daughther or Thomas and Hannah Wimbush born Apr 4, bp Apr 17 1775 (married Thomas Robbins)
Thomas son of Thomas and Hannah Wimbush born  Jun 23, bp Jul 24 1776, d Mar 11, bu Mar 14 1776/77
Thomas son of Thomas and Hannah Wimbush born Jan 17, bp Jan 19 1779 (married Ann Adams)
William son of Thomas and Hannah Wimbush born May 4, bp May 14 1780, d Jun 7, bu Jun 14 1780
Esther daughter of Thomas and Hannah Wimbush born May 16, bp May 16 1781
Ann daughter of Thomas and Hannah Wimbush born Apr 8, bp Apr 26 1783 (married William Elkington)
John son of Thomas and Hannah Wimbush born Sep 5, bpSep 26 1785 (married Hannah Priest)

No further baptisms in Culworth, that's not to say that there were not any more children though. It's possible that there were more (Martha, Benjamin and (another)Esther) born/bapt in Great Bourton but those records are at the Oxford RO - so will have to wait for another day.

Further to this I do not think Henry b1780 in Great Bourton is a child of Thomas and Hannah. The dates don't fit and Thomas and Hannah were most definitely in Culworth at that time.

[Just Kia]

Just to confirm that Thomas, son of Thomas and Susanna, who married Elizabeth Smith did not marry Hannah Coleman based on the fact that at the time of Susanna's Will being written 12 May 1779 her son Thomas had died (and left stuff in his will that he didn't have the rights to apparently).
Thus, as Thomas and (second wife?) Hannah were still in Culworth having children, it can not be the same Thomas.

[littleem1906]

So the Thomas Wimbush who married Elizabeth Smith, was he born in Southwark in 1740? And did he die in Great Bourton, Oxfordshire in 1824?

Is there any way of confirming the children that Thomas and Elizabeth had?

[Just Kia]

Thomas who married Elizabeth Smith had died by the time his mother (Susanna's) will was written - 12 May 1779. She states that his will was dated "on or about 1st Feb last past", so he must have died prior to 1st Feb 1779 (or 1778 technically as it would have been prior to ladies day and not yet 1779 for them then).
So, no he did not die in 1824 in Great Bourton - that is, I believe, the Thomas that married Hannah Coleman.

As for when he was born I can still only speculate, but c1740 sounds likely to be about right as he married Elizabeth 31 Aug 1765 in Southwark.

Both Susanna and Thomas snr only acknowledge 2 grandchildren - Thomas and Elizabeth (children of Thomas and his wife Elizabeth), so although that doesn't confirm that there were only the 2 of them it does strongly suggest that they were the only 2 living children of Thomas and Elizabeth.

Where did you locate the will of Thomas (with 2nd wife Hannah)? It doesn't seem to be on the TNA site unless I'm missing it. Was it in the local record offices?