help with location

[orangelil]

I have just found a relative in the Chelsea Pension Records - William Alfred Edwards born c1856 in Bloomsbury London.  Free bmds lists a few births for that name around that date - which would be the correct one for bloomsbury?

st pancras
st giles
kensington
amersham

His father was Albert (a carpenter) and his mother Anne

Do I have to order a birth cert to get details, or are the bmds transcribed online somewhere?  Sorry for silly questions- I'm used to Irish not English genealogy!

Thanks for your help. 
Karen

[JenB]

Bloomsbury was in St Giles Registration District.

Jennifer

[nanny jan]

Hi,

You will have to order the certificate from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates

Cost is £9.25;  usually take about a week to arrive if you are in UK.



Nanny Jan

[Valda]

Hi

Civil registration certificates you must order. Some parish registers are online, mainly Church of England parishes though one of the major churches in the Bloomsbury area has not deposited its records - St Giles in the Fields.

Have you found William on any censuses? Where do you have the information about his parents from?

There is a William Edwards on the 1861 census aged 5 with a birthplace of Bloomsbury. His mother is called Ann and his father was a carpenter, but his name is given as Charles. There is a baptism for a William Alfred Edwards to a Charles and Ann, Charles a cabinet maker, which gives William Alfred's birthdate as 21st May 1856 which would correspond with the June quarter birth registration.


Regards

Valda

[orangelil]

Thanks for all the messages.

Valda
I hadn't got as far as censuses as I wasn't sure where Bloomsbury was! 
The one you found sounds perfect though as William's father was a carpenter, he himself was a cabinet maker, and his son was a cabinet maker.

I got his father's name from William's marriage certificate - Albert Edwards, a carpenter
I got his mother's name from his Chelsea Pension record as his next of kin - Anne

I guess the father could have been Charles Albert or vice versa?
The census record sounds right 

[Valda]

Hi

There is no indication this man was called Charles Albert unfortunately so not perfect. His name was just Charles. You have to be careful about 'shoe horning' facts together when there seems to be a mismatch - it can't be about guessing. Edwards is a common surname - there will be lots of Edwards in London.
However moving forward to the 1871 census and finding the family and then checking marriages presents a possibility which might explain the name difference. By 1871 Charles was dead and Ann remarried.

4th September 1865 St Matthew, Bethnal Green
Albert Inge Full Bachelor Baker 34 George Street George Inge Farmer
Ann Edward Widow 34 George Street William Shepherd Weaver
Ann made her mark
Witnesses Alfred Ames and Charlott Eccles

Still I would have expected the army record for his mother might have given her as Ann Inge or does it just state a first name? Does it give an address for her?

If it is possible (if he was in the army he might be serving overseas) it might be worth trying to track William either side of his marriages both forward and back through the censuses to try and confirm the connection with further records. Can you give details on William? Was he living in this country?

It helps to collect all the basic records and then go back through them - jumping time periods especially in very large cities like London with large populations (with parishes close together and birthplaces often varying within areas of London on censuses) and common surnames such as Edwards can cause errors setting you off on possible wrong lines. It is always better to go from the known which would be William from his marriage and children if possible.



Regards

Valda

[orangelil]

Hi Venda
Thanks for your response.  I wasn't suggesting 'just guessing', just that I shouldn't discount the census record you so kindly found 

The basic info I have is as follows:

Marriage cert - William Alfred Edwards married Henrietta James in Trinity COI Belfast 16/12/1895
His occupation is Sergeant, and his address The Curragh Camp, Co Kildare.  His father is listed as Albert Edwards, carpenter.

1901 census - He is in 49 Manor Street Belfast, with Henrietta and 7 children
He was born 'London City', is a cabinet maker aged 44.

In 1911 the family are at 41 Hartley Street Belfast - William is not with Henrietta and 9 of their 11 children.  I have been unable to find him anywhere in Ireland in 1911.

On his army forms he writes that he was born in Bloomsbury, London.  He is aged 24 at time of signing up and is a carpenter.  He joined the 64th Brigade at Portsmouth on 21 August 1880, his military no being 2462.  The forms go on to say that he was on Home service from aug 1880 - dec 1885, in Malta until may 1886, transferred to army reserve on Home service until aug 1892.  He was discharged in 1892 at Omagh, having served his 12 years.  There is a note on the document which says 'Next of kin Anne, mother, London, Middlesex' but there is no address or surname for her.

Of his 11 children born pre 1911 census - all were born Belfast, except Ann, his first born - She was born in Hackey c1886.  Another child was born in 1911 after the census. 

I appreciate your taking the time to help.  As I said, I am unfamiliar with London and English records in general. 
Thanks
Karen

[Valda]

Hi

I had a feeling you might say Ireland so nothing much on censuses to track here!

I'm not sure what 64th brigade was - what regiment he was in?

'A brigade is a military formation that is typically composed of two to five regiments or battalions, depending on the era and nationality of a given army. Usually, a brigade is a sub-component of a division, a larger unit consisting of two or more brigades.'

64th brigade on Google gets First World War information when the army was swelled with volunteers and conscripts.

Did he remain a private throughout his service?

On the 1881 census there is a William A Edwards aged 24 unmarried Private 108th Regiment born London at Fulwood Barracks near Preston in Lancashire
RG11 4248 folio 60

It is going to be more likely that he is in Ireland at the time of the 1891 census. I can't see a baptism for daughter Ann. She may have been baptised before an army chaplain. Her birth registration could be in the domestic GRO index or in the army registers which are classed in the overseas GRO registers regardless whether the BMD was overseas or not.

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/MilitaryChooseSearchType.jsp


On censuses it seems to be enumerated as Ings

1881 census RG11 473 folio ?
115 Jubilee Street Miles End Old Town
Albert Ings 50 Head Married Baker Devon
Ann Ings 52 Wife Married Berks
Elizabeth Ings 21 Daughter Middx
Mary Ings 19 Daughter Middx
Jane Ings 17 Daughter Middx

This may not indicate that the daughters went onto use the Inge surname or where in fact using at the time of the census, just that the household didn't see the need to have the census enumerator poking into the family's business or the enumerator mistakenly thought they were all 'Ings' and copied the schedule incorrectly.
 
1871 census RG10 495 folio 81
34 George Street Bethnal Green Middlesex
Ann Ings 40 Head Married Reading Berkshire
William Edwards 14 Son  ? Paperer Spitalfields Middlesex - not sure what the occupation is perhaps someone else can look at it
Rachel Edwards 12 Daughter London Middlesex
Elizebeth Edwards 11 Daughter London Middlesex
Mary A Edwards 9 Daughter London Middlesex
Jane Edwards 7 daughter London Middlesex

Spitalfields isn't Bloomsbury

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitalfields

Bloomsbury

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomsbury

London birthplaces aren't always the same on censuses.

1861 census RG9 267 folio 6
15 Pelham Street Spitalfields Middlesex
Charles Edwards 34 Head Married Journeyman Carpenter Bermondsey Surrey
Ann Edwards 33 Wife Married Silk Weaveress Oakingham Berkshire
Charles Edwards 7 Son Spitalfields Middlesex
William Edwards 5 Son Bloomsbury Middlesex
Rachel Edwards 3 Daughter Spitalfields Middlesex
Elizabeth Edwards 1 Daughter Spitalfields Middlesex
plus 1 boarder

Oakingham I believe is modern day Wokingham


13th July 1856 St Matthew, Bethnal Green born 21st May
William Alfred Edwards parents Charles and Ann, 15 Wilk Street, father's occupation cabinet maker


1851 census HO107 1519 folio 272
39 Great Eagle Street  Christ Church Spitalfields Middlesex
Charles Edwards 26 Head Married Cabinet maker St Johns Bermondsey
Ann Edwards 23 Wife Married Oakingham Berks
Eliza Edwards 1 daughter Christ Church Middlesex


30th July 1849 St Matthew, Bethnal Green 
Charles Edwards Full Bachelor Cabinet maker 3 Collingwood Street William Edwards Policeman
Ann Shepherd Full Spinster 7 Collingwood Street William Shepherd Weaver
both signed with their mark
Witnesses Samuel Edwards his mark and Mary Calligams? her mark

Which will be handy because there will be policemen's records that can be accessed.



Regards

Valda

[Valda]

Hi

The surname at least ended as Ings - perhaps that was what it was

1891 census RG12 302 folio 59
23 Clark Street Mile End Old Town
Alber Ingles 60 Head Married Baker Dorset
Ann Ingles 64 Wife Married Berks

1901 census RG13 296 folio 114
Workhouse Bethnal Green, London
Ann Ings 73 Inmate Married Silk Weaveress  Reading, Berkshire

1901 census RG13 296 folio 126
Workhouse Bethnal Green
Albert Ings 70 Inmate Married Journeyman Baker  Mere, Wiltshire

Deaths Jun 1905  Ings  Albert  76  Bethnal G  1c 127

Deaths Jun 1910  Ings  Ann  79  Bethnal G.  1c 95


Too many possibilities in the GRO index to be certain of Charles' death registration as unfortunately this would be the period before age was placed on the index.

St Johns Bermondsey I would think would be St John Horsleydown. I can't see a baptism for a Charles Edwards there or anywhere with a father William circa 1826ish.

Regards

Valda