Author Topic: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta  (Read 48610 times)

Offline ninton

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #54 on: Saturday 12 May 12 07:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Bill
My father served in Malta RAF AMES 504 from October 1940 for 3 years during the siege of Malta. He thinks he served in the same unit as your father and almost certainly knew him. My fathers name is Ron, and would be very interested to know your fathers name.

Many Thanks
Anne

Hi Lilly377,

I am 'ninton' who blogged just before you.

I am currently building up the complete history of WWII Radar in Malta and I am very interested to find more information straight from the horse's mouth. So if you can contact me on my email or otherwise and pass me some memories of your father, such as his full name and the names of the workmates he remember and any interesting episode during his service at Dingli Cliffs 504 AMES I will be more than grateful.  My aim is to put on record those men and their wartime contribution who served on radar duties in Malta during WWII>

Thank you

Offline Lilly377

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #55 on: Sunday 13 May 12 18:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Bill
My father served in Malta RAF AMES 504 from October 1940 for 3 years during the siege of Malta. He thinks he served in the same unit as your father and almost certainly knew him. My fathers name is Ron, and would be very interested to know your fathers name.

Many Thanks
Anne

Hi Lilly377,

I am 'ninton' who blogged just before you.

I am currently building up the complete history of WWII Radar in Malta and I am very interested to find more information straight from the horse's mouth. So if you can contact me on my email or otherwise and pass me some memories of your father, such as his full name and the names of the workmates he remember and any interesting episode during his service at Dingli Cliffs 504 AMES I will be more than grateful.  My aim is to put on record those men and their wartime contribution who served on radar duties in Malta during WWII>

Thank you


My father would be pleased to help, can you please send your email address and we will email you more information.
 Thanks, Anne

Offline ninton

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #56 on: Monday 14 May 12 08:28 BST (UK) »
I can be contacted on (*)

Thanks

Tony

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Offline Lilly377

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #57 on: Monday 14 May 12 22:05 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately your email address was removed for safety and as I have only just become a member I am unable to PM you currently. Hopefully after this post I will be able to receive Personal Messages. Can you please PM me your email address after you have read this post, and I will send you the first part of my fathers story.
Thanks Anne



Offline bill247

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #58 on: Tuesday 17 July 12 16:01 BST (UK) »
Hi , Bill from Glasgow here and i am sorry for not coming back to this site sooner .  Over the years i have been overwhelmed by the assistance of the rootschat friends on this site . I now thanks to Ninton ( maj Tony Abela from Malta ) and Lilly 377 ( Anne and her Dad Ron ) have found at long last the location of the RAF No 504 Chain Overseas Low Radar Unit that both my Dad and Anne's Dad served on together from their arrival in Malta in November 1940 till my Dad left in May 1943.
Tony has been trying to assist me for almost the last 3 yrs and found Anne's on this website which was fantastic .
I now have the location on the Dingli cliff top area as to where the Radar Unit was sited and also when the Radar moved over the cliff to a lower ledge when they were being jammed from Sicily in early 1943 thanks to Tony i now have a picture of both sites . Also thanks to Anne's Dad the 504 Radar crew photo i have now all the crew bar 1 person has a name and i am learning other  things about the Radar Unit and my Dad's involvement .
I would like once again to thank everyone who has tried to assist me in my project to find my Dad's Radar Unit over the years and wish you all the best for the future .
  With Kindest Regards and thanks to all. 
                       bill.

Offline ninton

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #59 on: Tuesday 17 July 12 16:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Bill and everyone,  it was my pleasure to get involved in as much as I am finishing the last parts of my research about the Early warning System which was used by the British Forces in Malta during WWII. 

Thanks to this system and the servicemen and civilians who gave their utmost in the most difficult conditions a lot of lives, both servicemen and local population were saved by the efficient Air Raid Warnings which gave enough time for people to go to shelter, while the rest braved the enemies either in sky or on the ground.

Due to this I feel obliged that I will put this history with as much details as possible into print, as up to now only parts and sometimes with slight deviation from what actually happened is recorded in the public media.

So if anybody can help me by providing as much information as possible either directly from experience or through memories of their loved ones, so that I will be able to make a complete picture as much as possible.

I am making this project for no material interest at all except to give due recognition to those who through their duties served not only their country but also my country, Malta.


Tony Abela (Major)

Offline labat

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #60 on: Wednesday 01 August 12 04:06 BST (UK) »
Hello to all,
the Radar was absolutely vital for Malta and so for Suez and so for the World. Some details must be explained.
from mid July 1942 RDF (CHL) were jammed. But it seems that GCI has been received. We can consider that the frequency of the CHL like AMES typ 2 was 200MHz but the frequency of the GCI should be 500-600Mhz (if it's GCI typ 11 ordered in 1942 or Fighter Direction like  Mk1 yhat was mobile.
For type 11 Output Device is NT99. Mobile sets as standby if the 200MHz band was jammed. 600MHz was used by Germany.. Later versions from Mk5 Were coherent. First versions had rotary spark gap modulator. Horizontal beam 4 Deg, Vertical 11 Deg.
Other possibility : some CHL produced at 250-300Mhz as an insurance against jamming.
remark:  The delivery of a centimetric surface radar (CD or GCI) should be impossible before September 1942.
Chronicle :
On July 1942 RDF were jammed (see the Malta diary also Malta Story). RV Jones in charge of the countermeasures has analysed the situation and recommended to go on transmitting even if the Radars are jammed. It's said that the jammers were stopped by the Germans because they've stopped to jammed seeing always the radar signals. But RV Jones memories are not totally exact. It was important to decoy the Germans by transmitting on 200Mhz as the same time the new GCI radar recently arrived on Malta was able to guide the Beaufighter AI mk 4 (200MHz) and then should certainly have other frequencies;
other important information that after the arrival of the hero of Dunkirq and the hero of the battle of Britain Air Vice-Marshal Keith PArk at Malta July 15, 1942). Park knew a lot about the radars and particularly the inefficiency of the RDF during the battle of Britain. Like on September 1940 he has hopefully changed the tactics, on the July 1942, Park changed  the orders: the spit and beau have to take off as soon as possible to intercept enemy fighters and bombers on the way yo Malta, soon after they were detected.
Some RN escort vessels may be used the typ 271 radar to detect with their unjammed 3GHz frequency.
AI mk 4 radars of the beaufighters were impacted by the jammers.  during 15 days before the arrival of USS ohio, the squadron 89 has won no victory (the last was Nevil Reeves' victory on the  July 30/31 see http://www.cieldegloire.com/sq_raf_089.php). On the 10th August 1942, the Canadian  Ace Robert Fumerton has an engine problem and jump in the water. he was saved after some hours in the bath by another ace Nevil Reeves (who used many gallons of the precious oil to save his friend).
On the June 22, 1942 radar operators specially trained for AIMk7 use arrived from Egypt. (where Park has managed the arrival of the first squadrons fitted with AI mk7 radars for Beaufighters and ASV mk 3 radars for Wellington (squadron 248 and 252).
In the book "Chance and Design: Reminiscences of Science in Peace and War' written by Alan Hodgkin (specialist of the AI radars he's invented the scanning method for AI mk 7/8 radars), this one has detailed the arrival of the centimetric radar just before the Pedestal vital convoy.
On 14 beaufighter available 5 were sent to Malta. AI mk 7 were dismounted before. the Ai mk 7, the spares (lifetime of the 3GHz magnetron were only some hours at this date for 6-7kW), the personal for maintenance were transported thanks to two Sunderland.
Two beaufighter were operational to defend the USS ohio with 3GHz radars. Fumerton has taken one of the new beaufighter IF S/N V8268 who was modified to be fit with Ai Mk 7 radar at the Telecommunications Flying Unit (TFU).
The Santa Maria  miracle : everybody knew how vital was USS ohio for the issue of the war) but nobody knows that the injured tanker helped by RN destroyers was saved during the August 14/15, 1942 night by radars.
At the end of the August 14, 1942, 15 Italian bombers (leaded by col. Ravazonni, one of the best pilot of the Italian air forces) took off from Sicily with very efficient torpedo. Park was warned by radars operators (some radars like GCI or ChL modified could be not jammed or RN centimetric radars).
Park has phoned from AHQ to squadron 89 and asked for Reeves and Fumerton to take off immediately ("there's a little job to Comiso" he said, Comiso was an Sicilian Airborne. guided by 'unjammable' GCI other RDF transmitting to decoy the jammers, the two beaufighters shot down two italian bombers near to attack the USS Ohio. Thos one was flanked with two destroyers (and after one) and towed by another one succeeded with spitfire and guns protection to enter in the harbour at 8 on the morning.

Offline ninton

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #61 on: Wednesday 01 August 12 05:53 BST (UK) »



Dear labat,

Interesting points, though on some minor details I stand to differ. I sent you a personal message to establish direct contact by private email.

Ninton

Offline Ghawxi

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Re: RAF AMES 504 Dingli Cliff Malta
« Reply #62 on: Friday 21 September 12 21:32 BST (UK) »
My name is Gordon Rolls and I was NCO i/c Radio Relay at Dingli but based at RAF Il-Qortin, Nadur Gozo from Feb1966 until August 1968 and yes it was located in its own building a little away from the other sites on Dingli. I cannot remember too much about the Dingli end as I also had two J/T's who used to stay on Malta.

An earlier post mentioned the reason that RAF Il Qortin closed because of a problem with something in Paris ?. Not the reasom I'm afraid. RAF Il Qortin opened in the late 50's with two distinct experimental systems. The traffic route ( 5/7 Unit ) was the first to use E.D.C. (Error Detection and Correction). The system for transmission was called F.P.I.S ( Foreward Propogation Ionospheric Scatter ).  Using the "F" layer of the Ionosphere (Remains roughly stationary) the idea was to use low VHF frequencies (Just under 40MHz) to overcome the problems of the HF range being overcrowded. The link being to RAF St. Lawrence on the Isle of Wight. The plan being to shoot up a lot of power and hopefully enough of that reflected off the "F" layer would reach the other end. The system was placed on the coast at both ends to avoid interference from buildings etc. The reason Nadur, Gozo was chosen rather than a place on Malta as the original plan was to have a further link from Malta to Cyprus. The Radio Relay equipment to Malta was in place as was all the ducting etc to install this next part of the system.  Then along came satellites and the whole idea was cancelled with Il Qortin closing early in 1969.

Incidentally, I also knew Tony Abela from a second tour in Malta at Benghaisa Transmitters

One other reason why I posted is that I am also trying to find out about the reflecting station at RAF Wardija for an old friend.

If we can help each other please get back to me

Regards

Gordon Rolls Nadur,Gozo.