Ottoman Turks internment WW1 UK

[Deegee31]

Hi,

My maternal grandfather was interned at the outbreak of WW1, as he was born in Palestine, and hence was categorised as an Ottoman Turk. He was working in London in August 1914, for the "Pardess Syndicate" in Covent Garden (organisation of Jewish citriculturalists, ie orange growers). His job was to liase with Ellerman Lines which shipped in the oranges. He was I believe interned in Knockeloe (Isle of Man) but only for some months before being released.
I'm seeking details of internment hearings before the Internment Tribunal Boards and of course his personal internment file....

There's (some) material on Germans, Italians etc but not on Ottomans...

If anyone wants to contact me directly about this, my email is

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[Bluebird Research]

Hi

Surviving internment records for WW1 are few, unfortunately, although there are some at TNA in Kew, including for Ottoman enemy aliens. They are in record series FO 383 / 88 to / 102 inclusive. However, I believe these cover only a small proportion of those Turkish subjects interned and the chance of finding something relating to your relative must be slim (but then if you don't look you won't find).

There is reportedly little on the IoM itself but some talk of the International Red Cross holding records - whether these would be searchable, I do not know.

Good luck!

[Deegee31]

Cheers Bluebird!

Thanks for getting back to me.

I have realised how little documentary info survives as you have confirmed. However, i do have a serach request logged with the ICRC in Geneva, and they have just told me that due to the backlog, it's gonna take between 6-12 months.........oh well...

Is there inforamtion on the Interment Hearing Tribunals?

I don't understand the process whereby my grandfather would hve beeing identified and processed for internment.

best wishes,

David

[Bluebird Research]

Hello again!

I have no personal knowledge of the Internment Tribunal Boards used to evaluate the status of aliens during WW1. TNA mentions them in their online research guide at:  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletID=224 -- but I think this is unlikely to be of too much help.

I imagine that your grandfather would already have been registered as an Alien with the Metropolitan Police, so rounding him up with the other enemy aliens at the required time would have been straightforward (particularly as he would obviously have been living a settled and regular middle class lifestyle - he clearly wasn't an itinerant fly-by-night in the London criminal underground).

Bluebird

[Deegee31]

Thanks for this, Bluebird...
Best wishes,
David

[carinthiangirl]

the history of the Ottoman Empire possible can bring more understanding.
they lost big parts of their Empire also in the Middle East. maybe anywhere a connection because of this and the interment.
"The Arab Revolt  which began in 1916 turned the tide against the Ottomans at the Middle Eastern front, where they initially seemed to have the upper hand during the first two years of the war. When the Armistice of Mudros was signed on October 30, 1918, the only parts of the Arabian peninsula that were still under Ottoman control were Yemen, Asir, the city of Medina, portions of northern Syria and portions of northern Iraq. These territories were handed over to the British forces on January 23, 1919. The Ottomans were also ordered to evacuate the parts of the former Russian Empire in the Caucasus (in present-day Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan) which they had gained towards the end of WWI, following Russia's retreat from the war with the Russian Revolution in 1917."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#First_World_War_.281914.E2.80.931918.29
maps: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/oren/INR4204Middleeast.html
at 1914 also Palestina was still under their rule.

can it be that he was also of jewish orgin, as he worked for jewish citriculturalists? would be possible, as in the former Ottoman Empire lived so many people with different orgins and cultures.

[Deegee31]

Thanks Carinthiangirl for your reply, which deals with the demise of the Ottoman Empire in the ME during/after WW1.

My focus is much narrower and earlier and relates to UK policy/practice of interning civilian enemy aliens in camps in England at the outbreak of WW1.

Grandpa was indeed Jewish and was born in Petahk-Tikvah, then in Palestine part of the Ottoman Empire.

Through his mother, his family was involved, from 1905, in the developing citriculture industry. So, he came to England as that was one of the export destinations for the crop and was here in August 1914.

His internment was presumably on account of Turkey's alliance with Germany?

What I'm now finding "interesting" is the apparent lack of documentary evidence about the operation of the Internment Hearing Boards: am I wrong about this?

I'm wondering now about newspaper news items as a source of information?

[carinthiangirl]

"His internment was presumably on account of Turkey's alliance with Germany?"
this would make sense......think there maybe will be a connection to this theme, as the Turks in fact at that time in war with Britain.


Petach Tikwa - Israel
"During World War I, Petah Tikva served as a refugee town for residents of Tel Aviv and Jaffa, following their exile by the Turkish authorities due to their refusal to serve the Turkish army to fight the invading British forces. The town suffered heavily as it lay between the Turkish and British fronts during the war."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petah_Tikva
http://maps.google.at/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&channel=s&hl=de&q=Petach%20Tikwa%2C%20Israel&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

[KGarrad]

In case it helps anyone, I have a list of burials from the Knockaloe Camp, Isle of Man during WW1.