Simon Marks (b. abt 1830) & Rosalia Baszinska (b. ab 1836-44) in Posen, Prussia

[Leofwine]

I'm looking for 2 relatives originally from Posen in Prussia/Poland.

Simon (or Simeon) Marks, b. about 1830-2 in Posen, Prussia (Preußen, Pyen or Preußen; Posen) died 1894 in Wallsall, England.

Rosalia Baszinska b. about 1836-44 in Posen, Prussia (Preußen, Pyen or Preußen; Posen)

Both came to England at some point and married in London in September 1861 remaining there until at least 1863. By 1871 they had moved to Walsall in the West Midlands (Staffordshire/Warwickshire). He was a tailor and by 1881 he was a Master tailor who employed 10 women and 2 men. By 1891 he owned a double shop in Walsall High Street (173/5).

I don't know if they came to England together or seperately, or if they met in Posen or London.

I think both surnames may have been Anglicized, so if anyone more knowledgable than me can suggest other spellings I'd love to know. (Markowitz has been suggested as an original spelling for Marks)

Any help finding out more would be appreciated.

[Bluebird Research]

Hi

These both look to me like perfectly bona fide Polish Jewish names, although it is true that Marks could perhaps have been shortened from some longer surname. If Baszinska has been anglicised at all, it would probably only have been from Baszyńska. (The masculine form of the surname is of course -ski not -ska).

They may not have come from the city of Poznań itself. If they did, surviving records appear to be a little sparse. There are various surviving censuses from 1830 onwards in Poznań archives and some community kahal records both in Warsaw and Poznań itself. But it seems there may be few surviving Jewish BMDs.

[Leofwine]

Their marriage certificate arrived today so I now have both their father's names, and both are recorded with the same spelling so I guess they are probably not Anglicized versions but the original spellings.

Simon's father was Jacob Marks (which is not very helpful since I'm led to believe that is almost like saying John Smith in England!!) and was a tailor like his son. Simon lived at 5 Milton Street, Cripplegate.

Rosalia's father was Moses Baszinska and was deceased at the time of the marriage in 1861, with no record of his profession. Rosalia lived at 45 Aldermanbury.

They were married at the Hambro Synagogue in Fenchurch Street.

I'm not sure if there are any other UK sources I can check to find out more?  And is there any way to access the various Poznań records without travelling there?

[Bluebird Research]

The Jewish marriage contract certificate - kethubot - might give more information about both parties (such as the brothers of the groom, names of other family). This might be held at the London Beth Din or perhaps still with the Hambro Synagogue or deposited elsewhere such as at the LMA. It's probably worth pursuing just in case it gives vital clues.

Generally speaking, the best advice to anyone with ancestors with roots overseas is to exhaust all available domestic resources, just in case such records prevent you going astray when transferring your focus overseas.

You would not need to physically travel to Poland but you'ld probably need to hire a Polish researcher or pay the Polish archives' own fees (possibly slightly cheaper but lightly to take longer and be less thorough). It is possible that there may be some Jewish records from Poznań in Germany, as various archives were removed there by the Germans but it is just as possible that most of the Jewish ones were destroyed.

[JustinL]

The ketuba would reveal their full Hebrew patronymic names, but nothing about any siblings. The document that can reveal that sort of information is called the marriage authorisation and was issued by the Chief Rabbi as head of the London Beth Din (Rabbinical Court). However, MAs issued prior to 1880 reveal very little information and at £20 do not necessarily represent good value for money.

Marks (or Marx) is a shortened form of the Latin name Marcus and was the common secular equivalent of the Hebrew given name Mordechai. Both Marx and Marcus occur as surnames amongst Polish Jews, so Simon may have provided his original surname. Possibly Jacob's father was called Mordechai.

I shall check my notes to see if I can think of any other sources for Posen. But as Bluebird says, they are pretty sparse.

Justin

[looking123]

Hi, I´m new to this site and I tried to send a PM, I´m researching this as well, and would be interested to talk or write and find out some things, please reply, thanks

[looking123]

To Leofwine, I´m related to the people you are researching here, and would be very interested to talk with you, how do I PM you?

[Maryam]

Hi looking123 and welcome to Rootschat 

Try posting another reply to this thread; three posts should unlock the PM messaging system to you.

If you then click on the little green scroll beneath Leofwine's profile you will be able to send a PM.

KR
Maryam