Author Topic: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)  (Read 52661 times)

Offline Mongibello

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #54 on: Friday 13 August 10 20:16 BST (UK) »
I will have a look at the book next Tuesday.

Offline drykid

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #55 on: Friday 13 August 10 20:37 BST (UK) »
I will have a look at the book next Tuesday.

Which book? NB's diary?  That will be cool.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a copy of the Abrahams one now (seems like they have a copy in the Barbican library.) Not because I think it will have Da Vinci Code-like clues to the location of NB's diaries, or even because I have much interest in William Robinson, but I'm just slightly curious to see what it looks like.  It seems it was self-published by AA; I wonder if he tried finding a publisher only to be rejected because he didn't have any formal academic qualifications. 

I guess the big missing piece of information about AA now is when he died; and also when his sister died if that was later than him (since his collection of books would presumably have gone to her in the event of his dying first..)  But I guess that information is harder to track down.

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #56 on: Friday 13 August 10 20:47 BST (UK) »
15 Feb 1871 Probate for Joseph Abrahams 1 Houndsditch Birmingham and Sheffield warehouseman died 27 December 1870 effects under £9,000 Will proved by widow Elizabeth, Noah Davies and Walter Abrahams. I couldn't see anything for Elizabeth.

I think I'd have liked Aleck Abrahams. I can just see him quietly working away on something he loved, but without the education to be taken totally seriously by academics.

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #57 on: Saturday 14 August 10 08:20 BST (UK) »
August 14th: Harrison's 1786 edition of Dr Johnson's Dictionary would now set you back about £800+

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.


Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #58 on: Saturday 14 August 10 08:40 BST (UK) »
I'm pretty certain Alexander Abrahams died March quarter 1928 Edmonton aged 62 (gives him a birth year of 1866)
He was regularly contributing to N&Q through the 1920s but only once in 1926 and none after that (his name comes up twice in 1965 but I guess they refer back to his old entries)

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.

Offline drykid

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #59 on: Saturday 14 August 10 09:03 BST (UK) »
I'm pretty certain Alexander Abrahams died March quarter 1928 Edmonton aged 62 (gives him a birth year of 1866)
He was regularly contributing to N&Q through the 1920s but only once in 1926 and none after that (his name comes up twice in 1965 but I guess they refer back to his old entries)

Ahh thanks for that info; 1928 sounds about right.  It's not easy to search N&Q properly without an Oxford Journals sub, but based on what I've seen I'd concluded exactly the same thing; that everything after the mid twenties just refers back to old entries by him.) Looks like he got his book out not long before he died then; I'm glad he finally managed it.  I'm sure he'd be pleased that a copy now sits in the Guildhall Library alongside numerous other academic works about history.

So, if AA's copies of the NB diaries were sold on after his death (which is nothing more than supposition on my part), then that means there's a gap of 46 years between his death and the 1846 one being sold by Winifred Myers to Westminster Council.  If only we knew where they were in between, and how many made that journey... (Although whereas I can't possibly imagine NB selling the diaries during his lifetime, it's more plausible that AA might have done so since there wouldn't have been such a personal attachment.)

- Ian

PS I can't ever hear about Johnson's Dictionary these days without thinking of the Blackadder episode where Robbie Coltrane plays an utterly terrifying Doctor Johnson and Blackadder ends up destroying the only copy of the dictionary...

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #60 on: Saturday 14 August 10 09:56 BST (UK) »
There's plenty of time (and a World War) between Aleck's death and Westminster Archives acquiring the diary for any others to be lost or destroyed. Perhaps with all the current interest in Nat, the others, if they survive, might surface?

Historical footnote: My husband's 4x great aunt Mary Smith  played hostess to Dr Johnson and Mr and Mrs Thrale on at least one occasion as she was married to Mr Thrale's cousin Ralph Smith of St Albans. I bet she was terrified of the real thing.

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.

Offline drykid

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #61 on: Saturday 14 August 10 10:51 BST (UK) »
There's plenty of time (and a World War) between Aleck's death and Westminster Archives acquiring the diary for any others to be lost or destroyed.

True, although on the positive side I'm fairly sure from what I've read that Aleck accumulated a collection of fairly valuable books going back hundreds of years.  It seems inconceivable to me that someone would say "oh this is all junk" and bin it without first consulting a bookdealer. So at that point his collection would logically have gone to someone who appreciated its value.  And the longer after that the diaries survived for, the less likely it would be that someone new acquiring them would see them as worthless.  WWII is a possible problem, I agree, but then again the 1846 one survived.  So any others that were stored with it during the war presumably did too.

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Perhaps with all the current interest in Nat, the others, if they survive, might surface?

This is both a plus and a minus.  I agree that if they are in private hands then the publicity about the Westminster serialisation could cause them to now come forward.  The downside is that they would probably think that they have something that's extremely valuable in financial terms, in a way that they might not have considered before.  Still that's a problem for Westminster Archive to ponder more than us :P

Quote
Historical footnote: My husband's 4x great aunt Mary Smith  played hostess to Dr Johnson and Mr and Mrs Thrale on at least one occasion as she was married to Mr Thrale's cousin Ralph Smith of St Albans. I bet she was terrified of the real thing.

It's funny; in my ignorance I'd always assumed that his personality in that episode of the show was just some dramatic device to make the accidental destruction of the dictionary seem even more unfortunate. But I just did some reading on Johnson and it seems he really was notorious for his behaviour.  Interesting that some people now think he had Tourette's (a term that didn't even exist while he was alive.)

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 6)
« Reply #62 on: Sunday 15 August 10 08:44 BST (UK) »
Well I'm a bit confused by the "Ornamental blind" bit but whippers were the men who unloaded the coal from the collier boats. http://www.portcities.org.uk/london/server/show/conMediaFile.1098/Coal-whippers-discharging-a-collier-by-WL-Wyllie.html.

John Vincent Smith's murder of Susan Tolleday doesn't seem to have made great news. The poor girl got involved with this man to who she was distantly related through marriage and gave him money. I guess she wanted to stop, there was an argument and he killed her  http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18460817-name-543&div=t18460817-1582a#highlight

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.