Author Topic: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??  (Read 10518 times)

Offline DavidTaylor

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • View Profile
George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« on: Wednesday 11 August 10 04:35 BST (UK) »
Hello:

Hoping someone can help me solve a mystery and and potentially get me through a brick wall.
I have reason to believe, albeit circumstantial, that George Frederick Taylor of Well Street,  Hackney (b.1815 d. Jan 8, 1892) and Christian Frederick Taylor of Stoke Newington (b. 1810- 1900) are first cousins.

GF father was George Taylor (1783-1836) and I'm not sure of Christian's fathers name, but I believe they were brothers.

Here is the 1881 census of Christian Frederick Taylor

    Household:

 Name    Relation   Marital Status   Gender   Age   Birthplace   Occupation   Disability
 Christian F. TAYLOR     Head     M     Male     71     Middlesex, England     Retired Coachman     
 Louisa TAYLOR     Wife     M     Female     59     Brighton, Sussex, England          
 Susan M. TAYLOR     Daur     U     Female     24     Stoke Newington, Middlesex, England          
 Edward A. TAYLOR     Son     U     Male     21     Stoke Newington, Middlesex, England     Land Agent Clerk     
 Arthur E. TAYLOR     Son     U     Male     19     Stoke Newington, Middlesex, England     Unemployed Clerk     
 Ernest BARNES     Nephew     U     Male     19     Bow, Middlesex, England


Here is 1881 census of George Frederick Taylor

    Household:

 Name    Relation   Marital Status   Gender   Age   Birthplace   Occupation   Disability
 George F. TAYLOR     Head     M     Male     65     Hackney, Middlesex, England     Plumber & Painter     
 Caroline T. TAYLOR     Wife     M     Female     64     Stoke Newington, Middlesex, England          
 Alice TAYLOR     Daur     U     Female     32     Hackney, Middlesex, England          
 Arthur TAYLOR     Son     U     Male     28     Hackney, Middlesex, England     Grainer (Painter House)     
 Albert TAYLOR     Son     U     Male     26     Hackney, Middlesex, England     Plumber

The circumstantial evidence I have is that on the 1861 census two women who are George Frederick Taylors wifes relatives, Matilda and Mary Ann Broadbridge are living with Christian Frederick Taylor... Could be a coincidence, but with this and them sharing the middle name Frederick I'm thinking there is a tie here..

What I really need to show is that both of their fathers are brothers!

Any help proving this would be much appreciated!

David



Offline keyboard86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,056
    • View Profile
Re: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 11 August 10 04:58 BST (UK) »
Hi I wish I could spend more time helping out, but my shift at work is about to end!

But if it gives any clues, on the 1851 for George he has a William Henry Broadbridge aged 20, working as an apprentice with him.

Census Ref HO107/1506/92/41

Christian is on HO107/1503/92/41

Must go, but best of luck with your quest!

Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DavidTaylor

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • View Profile
Re: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 11 August 10 05:05 BST (UK) »
Yes, that would be his brother in law, Thanks!

Offline Valda

  • Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 11 August 10 09:16 BST (UK) »
Hi

1851 census HO107 1503 folio 92
Church Street St Mary Stoke Newington Middlesex
Christian Taylor 41 Head Married Cow keeper St James Westminster
Louisa Taylor 29 Wife Married Brighton Sussex
Henry Woollard 10 Son-in-law France British Subject
Louisa Taylor 2 Daughter Stoke Newington Middlesex
George Taylor 1 Son Stoke Newington Middlesex

On the 1861 census Christian gave his birthplace as Paddington and in 1891 Piccadilly - which would be consistent with St James Westminster also known as St James Piccadilly.

Marriages Dec 1847
TAYLOR  Christian Frederick     S Martin  1 160   
WILLARD  Louisa     St Martin  1 160

CHRISTIAN FREDERICK TAYLOR
LOUISA WILLARD 
Marriage:  21 DEC 1847   Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster

You would have to purchase the certificate to obtain information on Christian's father or else contact Westminster Archives.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Eyesee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,650
    • View Profile
Re: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 11 August 10 11:01 BST (UK) »
Pilotsearch has a Christian Frederick TAYLOR born 10 Jun 1809, and baptised 25 Nov 1810 at St James Westminster. His parents are listed as Christian Frederick TAYLOR and Sarah. Could be a possibility.

Ian C
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Valda

  • Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 11 August 10 11:58 BST (UK) »
Hi

Other children

St James Westminster
Helen bapt 19th August 1804
George bapt 12th October 1806
Martha Bapt 12th Sept 1808
Sarah bapt 27th December 1812
William Thomas bapt 10th October 1813 King Street, father's occupation servant

St Andrew Holborn
Alexander bapt 15th February 1818 (born 1816) father's occupation Ostler
Catherine Bapt 15th February 1818
Elizabeth bapt 6th February 1820
Frederica Caroline  bapt 15th Sept 1822
Ann Alexanderina bapt  13th November 1825
Georgina Christiana bapt 8th February 1824


Deaths Jun 1844   TAYLOR  Christian Frederick    Clerkenwell  3 88

1841 census HO107 662/5 folio 37
Collier Place Clerkenwell Middlesex
Cristan Taylor 61 Ostler not born in county
Catharine Taylor 22  F S born in county
Caroline Taylor 19  F S born in county
Georgiana Taylor 17 F S born in county



Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DavidTaylor

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • View Profile
Re: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 11 August 10 13:14 BST (UK) »
Thank you, I'll look into these more!

Offline DavidTaylor

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • View Profile
Re: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 12 August 10 02:48 BST (UK) »
For those keeping tabs, I found a descendant of Christian Frederick Taylor on Rootschat. He states that C.F.T.'s father was named Christian Taylor (b cir 1775) and his mother, Susanna (b cir 1779).. Now, my line would be George Taylor (b Cir 1783) and Grace nee Manning (b. cir 1775). and again, I'm theorizing that George and Christian were brothers.

My George got married at St Leonards, Shoreditch in 1804 and lived his whole life in Hackney. His Christian was married in Westminster(?) and seems like he lived in Stoke Newington... Now I just have to find a common birth location and common parents for George and Christian and this mystery will be solved!  :o

Offline Valda

  • Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: George Frederick Taylor & Christian Frederick Taylor Cousins??
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 12 August 10 11:02 BST (UK) »
Hi

It is important to stick to the evidence the records give. The mother's name on all the baptisms was Sarah. If it had been different from the baptism of Christian Frederick in 1810 given by Ian for any of the other baptisms I would have given the variations.   

There is evidence of a different Christopher (amended) Taylor married to a Susannah baptising children at St George Hanover Square (1817, 1819 and 1822). He was a sadler. He had no second christian name.


Christian Frederick Taylor gave his age as 61 on the 1841 census. On that census he stated (written clearly as N) he was born out of County - i.e. not born Middlesex. His death certificate would also give his age.

Deaths Jun 1844   TAYLOR  Christian Frederick     Clerkenwell  3 88

The evidence of the 1841 census alone (which is not always accurate on ages) gives his birth year as circa 1780.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence as yet placing Christian Frederick senior's marriage to Sarah in Westminster. As he was born out of county he could have married before arriving in the London area. There doesn't seem to be any evidence as yet that he had any connection with Hackney. Between 1804-1813 he was in St James Westminster. Between 1818-1824 he was in Holborn. 1841-1844 Clerkenwell.

There is evidence that one of Christian Frederick and Sarah's 12 children - Christian Frederick junior was living in Stoke Newington (north Hackney) from circa 1849 onwards. His marriage in 1847 'places him' (by tradition marriages took place in the wife's parish) in St Martins Westminster.


This map may help navigate around London

http://www.british-towns.net/en/level_2_display_ByL1.asp?GetL1=203

Holborn you will find under Camden (Clerkenwell subsumed into Holborn)


This is the entry of your Taylors (as indexed - extremely difficult to read the image) on the 1841 census

1841 census HO107 699/3 folio 24
Wells Street South Hackney (parish of St John Hackney)
George Taylor 25
Grace Taylor 60
Caroline Taylor 20
Catherine Taylor 20
Alfred Hemper 15
Adult ages, those over 15, usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census

This burial for Grace's husband George

27th June 1836 St John Hackney
George Taylor aged 53, Well Street

and Grace

30th May 1844
Grace aged 68, Wells Street

As it is difficult to read the 1841 census image to see whether Grace says Y or N to born in county (though Y is unreliable on the 1841 census) and George died before the 1841 census there doesn't seem any evidence to show George in particular, was also born in Middlesex? London was a city that constantly needed new blood and people arrived in the City (and still do on a daily basis) drawn there for the opportunities it gave.

The IGI (Family Search) is a imperfect index and many parishes are not coverred by it or only partially covered.


How are Matilda and Mary Ann Broadbridge connected to Grace Taylor (nee possibly Manning or Chapman)? On the 1861 census, with the Taylor family they give their ages as 39 and 29 and born Stoke Newington.

18th November 1821 St Mary, Stoke Newington born 21st October
Matilda Broadbridge  parents Charles and Elizabeth, Stoke Newington, father's occupation plumber
Marianne baptised 17th December 1830 born 28th November Charles and Mary Anne were the parents

Possible marriage

20th January 1810 St Luke, Old Street
Charles Broadbridge
Elizabeth Peppercorn
Bachelor and spinster of the parish
Both signed
Witnesses Jn Smith and ?

1841 census HO107 669/5 folio 23
Church Street Stoke Newington
Charles Broadbridge 55 Plumber
Mary Ann Broadbridge 50
Matilda Broadbridge 15
Mary Ann Broadbridge 10
William Broadbridge 8
all born in county

Charles's age given on the 1851 census was 64 and his birth place was Church Street Stoke Newington. He married his second wife in 1826. She was Mary Ann nee Shotter aged 62 and born Sunbury on Thames Middlesex on the 1851 census.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk