William Dawbarn 1820-1907, Liverpool

[FosseWay]

Hi all, and thanks for all the replies. I'm at work at the moment and don't have my family history info to hand, but I'll respond as best I can from memory.

The William Dawbarn born in Wisbech who married Elizabeth Yelverton is a different individual (and definitely related to me).

Iria's first family in 1871 is the one I'm after (it looks like either his age is transcribed wrongly or he lied to the enumerator for whatever reason) -- the second is the Yelverton Dawbarns (and yes, they did have a huge number of children!).

I'm intrigued by the 1841 return Iria mentions, as I don't think I've come across this and it looks highly promising. The William I'm after was a joiner all his life (not a timber/slate merchant as his namesake in Wisbech was), so this fits with his possible father as listed there.

Garstonite: There are definitely two William Dawbarns! I'm not aware of there being two Dawbarn--Yelverton marriages though. The Liverpudlian kids are born much later than the Wisbech Yelverton-Dawbarn kids as Alice Halsworth was significantly younger than William (20 years according to her age at death on FreeBMD, but 17 according to what she said in some of the censuses). I'm pretty convinced as you are that Alice and William didn't get married. I went through the actual paper indexes in the Family Records Centre several years ago from before Alice's 15th birthday to after the birth of their last child in 1876 and found nothing.

The next thing to do is investigate the others living with William in 1841 -- Thomas and Margaret especially, who appear to be his parents (though you never can be sure with the 1841).

[FosseWay]

Just done some digging into that 1841 entry that Iria pointed me to.

I hadn't noticed when hurriedly looking at replies earlier that this is in Southwark, not Liverpool. Anyway, I've found both William (now married, HO107/1700/277/33) and his parents and brother Edward (HO107/1572/264/32) in 1851 in the London area, so unfortunately these aren't related to my William.

Back to the drawing board -- but thanks for all the ideas.

[HeatherDawbarn]

Hello,
my name is Jake Robinson.. my wife is Heather Dawbarn - she kept her last name...

I have no clue about genealogy... i set up a "google alert" on "Dawbarn" because she just ran for office as Register of Deeds and won!  So I am keeping tabs on any public comment that may be media/political etc...

your thread popped up.. I am sure Heather will be related to you...

We live in Murfreesboro, TN

Here parents are from Warrington, Cheshire.. her dad is Ronald Dawbarn.

He married Joyce Smart from Warrington (i don't have these dates as my wife just fell asleep (it's 11:13pm now)

They grew up in Warrington.. from my discussions with her and her family they had Dawbarns in Liverpool who built ship masts for their occupation... they may have owned a company that did this...

anyway, you may know way more than I do about the Dawbarns -maybe you already have tracked down all the Dawbarns...


Ron's father was also born in England a- Sydney Dawbarn...
he passed away several years ago...

Ronald cam to the States when he was 17 to go to school... the had very little money - sewed on the inside of his jacket pocket..He had no idea of how big the US was when he landed in New York.. his destination was Independence, Missouri… that’s half the country away and he had no transportation…

Anyway, I’m sure if you want to know more details we will be glad to share…
Btw, Ronald is approx mid 70’s now.. he has a brother John and a sister Ruth who never married, here in the states… and his parents eventually immigrated after some time.. both died here in the US.

They moved here on religious reasons… more on that later as well.

My wife, Heather, has two sisters and a brother.. and no one in our family has had a son to carry the name on…

My daughters (two) are named Sydney Arden Dawbarn-Robinson (after her Granddad) and Whitney Renee’ Dawbarn-Robinson.. we punished them with hyphenated names 

My wife and I moved to the UK and lived in Middlewich for 4 years… ’03 to ’07 and got to meet much of her Mom’s side of the family.. the Slinns… we really enjoyed getting to know our extended family…

Ok, enough for now… hope this is something relevant to your work!

Regards,

Jake Robinson
jake@earnware.net

[Henry1]

I am a direct decendant of William Dawbarn and spent some time researching family history a few years ago. Like you, I thought it strange that two seperate William Dawbarn families existed in Liverpool during the 19th century. Particulary so, given that they were both engaged in the timber trade but at opposite ends of the social scale.My ancestor, he was my GG grandfather actually, was by trade a joiner whilst yours amongst other interests was I believe a timber merchant.
The problem I have is that William appears to have aged 10 years between the 1851Census record where he appears as a 20 year old apprentice living in what looks like a lodging house in Stanhope St and the subsequent records where he lives in various poor locations as a married man with Anne Halsworth. Like you I can find no record of a marriage although all their children appear to have been baptised Anglican. I wonder if he is an illigitimate child of John, your ancestor's uncle.

[FosseWay]

Yes, I'd been wondering the same thing. John (who is actually my direct ancestor as well, because of cousin marriages) was certainly in Liverpool at the right time to be William's father, although the rate at which he and his wife Jane generated children doesn't seem to imply any marital problems there :-)

However, I have one misgiving about the illegitimacy scenario. Most of the other illegitimate kids I've found in my family in the 19th century use their mother's surname, and, even after the start of civil registration, the father isn't mentioned either in the baptism register or the birth certificate. Either the mothers genuinely didn't know or they didn't want, or were pressured not to, make an official thing of it.

On the other hand I can imagine a scenario where the father might want to do his best by his offspring and offer to be public about his parentage. In this case, I have my doubts about this for a number of reasons. Firstly, I'd imagine there'd be a big difference between a young, single man sowing his wild oats where he shouldn't, and a married man in his 30s having a child with another woman when he already has seven or eight children with his wife. I'd imagine going public about affairs etc. in that context would be something most men would shy away from! Also, having gone to that trouble and potential embarrassment, he'd presumably have had a reason, such as giving the child a good start in life and making sure he had money and prospects. These advantages, which John and his family were certainly in a position to share, never seem to have been available to William.

Finally (sorry, this is turning into a rambling essay), I guess it's possible that William, or his mother, consciously chose to use the Dawbarn name as a means of social preferment, taking the view that if the real father won't take any responsibility, they'll make the best they can out of the link anyway. Under this scenario, John could still be William's father, but William probably would have been baptised under his mother's name, which of course we have no way of knowing.

[Henry1]

Just thought I would share this with you and do hope you are interested.
 Your reply prompted me to dig out my old notes on this subject and remind myself where I was up to when I last gave it up.
As I explained the earliest record of William my GGGF was as a 20 yr old apprentice joiner living with a family in Stanhope St  on the night of the 1851 census. However what I had forgotten was that  we had also found another William Dawbarn at another house on that night.So in total we now have three!
This entry shows a William Dawburn (misspelling presumably) visiting a family called Fairclough a few miles away from Stanhope St. This William is given as 18 years old also born in Liverpool and employed as a tailor.
Obviously the nearest relation these two can be is first cousins which, if that is the case, means that there were, or at least had been at some time, two Dawbarn brothers who fathered them. Also it rules out the illegitimacy theory with John, so he is off the hook!
Another interesting point is that I recall John first had premises in Liverpool at Byrom St. Records show that Alice Ann Halsworth, Williams "wife" moved from Mayfield Staffs with her parents to 12 Byrom St when she was about 4 yrs old. Her father David was employed as a tailor by Ackroyd and Co and they lived on the premises. They where there from 1841-1853
I know John prospered and opened premises in Bold St which would be considerably more upmarket than Byrom St but do you know if he actually left Byrom St? Also do you know the year?

[FosseWay]

Looking at my records, I find that I don't actually know where John lived for the last 17-odd years of his life. He was in Byrom Street in 1832, according to the poll book of that year. My next evidence is the marriage certificate of his daughter Mary Lafone Dawbarn (also my direct ancestor; she married her first cousin Richard Dawbarn) in 1839. Annoyingly, here his residence is just 'Liverpool'. I haven't found him in the 1841 census, and he died in 1849 in Wisbech, so the death certificate doesn't give a Liverpool address.

Interesting about the additional William Dawbarn you mention. I'll have a guddle around and see what I come up with and compare it to what you mention. It will be worth re-entering John into Ancestry etc. as it's some years since I did the research on the Dawbarns and more records have become available.

[Henry1]

I have found John in the 1841 census at 101 Bold St Liverpool. Bold St was a very prestigious address in those days it was known as "the Regents Street of the North."
I also have a copy of his will and the codicil written whilst in Pennsylvania in 1847 this gives his residence at that time as Oxton Cheshire. Today Oxton is a suburb of Birkenhead on the other side of the Mersey from Liverpool but in those days it would have been a very pleasant village on a hill overlooking the river. Certainly a suitable place for a rich merchant to retire .John's will was valued at in excess of £6000.
It seems the family must have disposed of the property pretty quickly after John's death, I looked up those family members which according to the will were still living with him in the 1851 census:
Cordelia had move in with her uncle Ellison in Walton Liverpool
Francis Hurry and Harriet had bought property in Everton Liverpool
Hope this is of some help.
Incidentally the guy from America who contacted you re his wife Heather will be related to me .One of William's sons moved to Warrington in Cheshire and there is quite a colony of Dawbarns in that area,I've met a couple of them. Some became Mormons and that is why they moved to the States.

[FosseWay]

Thanks for the tip about the 1841 census. I imagine Ancestry's transcription, or the original enumerator's interpretation, were sufficiently far off the mark for him not to be found by name alone. I'll do an address search.

I had no idea John had been in America, never mind that he changed his will while there. Thanks for the info!

I've found several Dawbarns who are active on the internet in one way or another who are related to your side, including a doctor specialising in Alzheimers disease (Dr David Dawbarn) and a musician (Simon, aka Spike, Dawbarn).