John Atlantic Stephenson

[mandywh]

Hi all
I am encroaching here as I'm not related to any of the families but I have an interest in Capt William Brumwell 1813-1854.
I found the details of his death and image of the headstone many years ago and was wondering if anyone had ever acquired a copy of his death record and knew his cause of death?
I have read the account of the Voyage of the Ann Dashwood, the ship which he commanded in 1853, sailing from England to Australia via Cape Town and it shows him as a drunk, acting in what could be called an  insane manner at times. I thought when I first read the account that perhaps he was mentally ill or affected by a disease such as syphilis? I am intrigued to know his cause of death and if that sheds any light on his behaviour.
If you haven't read the account, here it is. Would make a great movie. https://www.dashstory.com/EdwardJournal.pdf

My interest is due to the fact that my great great grandmother and 7 children, the eldest being my great grandfather, were on board the Ann Dashwood. They are referred to a few times in the diary being the woman and seven children who boarded the ship in Cape Town. The Captain only allowed her 1 berth for all of them (told her to sit up at night) and rations for 2 1/2 people, increased to 3 1/2 after Edward Dash remonstrated with the captain.

Mandy (I'm in South Australia)

[Jewelly66]

Hi All,

I was investigating John Stephenson and his wife Susan as they appear next to and are sponsored by the the same people as my Samuel and Ann Good on their Indian Bonds.

Samuel was sent to erect Machinery for three years from Feb 1829. And was ordered to travel forth with (immediately) to India on his Covenant.

Their eldest son Alfred Edward Ulrich Good was born in Calcutta in 1830. He is my  direct Good relation. - Bruce Harold Goode b1940 - Alfred Richard Goode b1910 - Walter Henry Good b1867 - all Queensland, Australia - Alfred Edward Ulrich Good (b1830, Calcutta, India) - John Samuel Good (abt 1800-1855, New South Wales (Now Queensland) Australia.
Samuel was a Baker and Confectioner according to his bounty arrival record on the Camden in 1836. Of which he was listed on the manifest as Nathaniel Good.

And from reading this i was wondering whether it was for JS's company.

I note that John Atlantic Stephenson was born and named after the ocean he was born on.

And that they were on the "ARGO" would anyone know if there is a copy of the passenger list available.?

I am currently searching through English and Indian court records to locate any further information on my couple and where they came from. As all inhabitants were required to go through the court system prior to 1832. When policy changed.

i can be contacted directly
jewelly66[at]yahoo[dot]com
Western Australia

[jon541]

I'm hoping that Ian (ALTZA53) is still reading this board ...

Earlier today I found confirmation that Leonard Stephenson had died in King's Lynn in 1902.  Apparently, he had travelled the length and breadth of the country as an itinerant harpist and vocalist, probably busking by the sound of it as I can't find any record of him in The Stage etc. to suggest that he appeared in music halls.  The newspaper account of his death revealed that he used the pseudonym "Samuel Gordon" under which name he can be seen in King's Lynn in the 1891 census.

I was quite chuffed at finding this until I discovered that a lady on Ancestry had followed the same trail of crumbs some years ago and already had this on her tree...

At the same time, I looked up the death notice of Alfred Septimus Stephenson's widow, Jane, in the Shields Daily News which reads "At 44, Percy Street, Tynemouth, on the 13th inst., aged 70 years, Jane Stephenson (Gordon)."  Interestingly, Jane is described in a couple of census entries as a vocalist and "assisting husband as harpist" so clearly this wasn't a skillset exclusive to Leonard.

Does the fact that Jane is referred to here as Stephenson a.k.a. Gordon and that Leonard also used the surname Gordon support a theory that John Stephenson and Elizabeth Gordon Brumwell never actually married?  Remember that Elizabeth was herself born illegitimately in 1804 (see the baptism below - Wm. Brumwell and Elizabeth Gordon didn't marry until 1810) and I have often seen illegitimate children refer to themselves by their respectable surname (i.e. their father's) but in legal documents by their surname at birth.

Elizabeth Gordon - [Born] Sep: 22nd 1804 - [Baptized] Octr. 13th - Illeg: Daur. of - Elizabeth Gordon, by the Child's supposed Father, Mr. William Brummel, Surgeon. [BT, Newcastle St. Nicholas, 13 Oct 1804]

Perhaps the same applied to John Stephenson and Elizabeth Gordon. For their eldest child, John Atlantic Stephenson, to have been born legitimately on their voyage to India they would have had to have married before they left England, probably c1828, but there is no record that Ian or I have been able to find of such a marriage.

Now I'm inclined to think it's a real possibility that they never married.  It just seems odd that Alfred's widow would use the Gordon surname. 

[jon541]

I hope this board isn't completely moribund ... 

Posting because I have just had a DNA match on Ancestry with a descendant of Henry Layton Stephenson (1832-1907) on my MATERNAL side.  I already have a PATERNAL side descent from the Brumwells.  As my mother is descended from Stephensons from the Eggleston area, I'm taking this as another small piece of circumstantial evidence supporting my contention that John Stephenson (1790-1844) was the son of William and Mary of Romaldkirk (since William is also part of the Eggleston group).

[ALTZA53]

Hi John, thanks for your seperate email advising me of your post to this site. I have not had a notification from Rootschat that posts have been made to this forum for some time. I looked a few times after my last posting on page 34 but nothing and assumed people had lost interest or no further advances had been made. So have concentrated on my own family DNA rather than my wife's side.

So really surprised to see that a lot of new posts have been made and now up page 37.

I will have to digest all the new posts and in particular your recent comments and findings.

Thanks again Jon.
Cheers Ian.

[ALTZA53]

I have looked back over the Posts from page 35 and noticed in particular Brian's comment on John Stephenson
Hi all, I stumbled into a chat room on site and some very helpful people were straight on the case for me.
I have a possible hit for the John Stephenson we can't get past in 1800.

1784-1844 John Stephenson born Triconopoly, India.
Died 04 December 1844. Oldham, Lancashire.

The information linked Elizabeth Gordon and the Brumwell name.

Has anyone come across this information already?

I see Jon has correctly commented that this could not be the case. John died 4th December 1844 at Heworth. I have the Death Certificate. Birth is therefore circa 1790. Son Alfred Septimus Stephenson was also born Heworth 6th October 1843 and in 1841 Census were living in Peak Stainton Dale Scalby Yorkshire where John was the Agent for the Peak Alum Works. Son Albert Peak Stephenson born 29th October 1840 also in Peak and reason for his middle name.

[ALTZA53]

Following on from my last Post (and is related ) when looking at Ancestry ThruLines it suggested the possibility of new 3rd GGP's for my wife being the Parents of John Stephenson. The already established and verified 3rd GGP's being the parents of Elizabeth Gordon Brumwell namely William Brumwell and Elizabeth Gordon.
The new 3rd GGP's identified were Henry Stephenson Born?, Died 1811 Madras India and his wife Mary Smith born 1775. Married 1800 approx, Madras India.

In Ancestry 'Hints' which pop up on Family Tree's and suggested new Relatives in True Lines DNA are not verified nor DNA Linked but are based on information on Family Tree's as submitted by Ancestry members.

In other words this new information should be treated as a possibility only and should not be accepted as correct without further investigation and verification of the stated facts. Unfortunately this is not carried out in a lot of cases and simply uploaded to their respective Family Tree's, which are then corrupted and repeated by other members associated with that Tree.

In the case above John is stated to have married an Elizabeth Brockman born 1806 (died 1879), on 2 June 1822 Tamil Nadu India. His occupation Apothecary. Their children Robert b. 6/1826, James b. 2/1828, William b. 1/1831, Henry Layton Stephenson (our Henry) b. 1/1832 Singhee Bengal India, John Bromswell Stephenson (our John) b. 6/1832 Ghazeepore Bengal India, George b. 8/1832, Mary b. 6/1834, Alexander b. 9/1836, Richard b. 4/1838, Georgina b, 4/1840, Victoria b. 3/1842.

Clearly not the same family as our John Stephenson and Elizabeth Brumwell (Nee Gordon).

This Family were during the whole of the above time living in Southern India (Madras) whereas ours were in Gateshead Newcastle England up to 1829, Northern India (Bengal) until 1838 and then back to England.

It's obvious that someone was searching for other Stephenson's living in India and incorrectly added our relatives to their Tree. Another point is to note the impossibility of Henry being a member of this family is that his Birth is 1/1832 yet his supposed sibling George was born the same year on 8/1832 being only 7 months apart.

Facts are John Stephenson b, 1790, Married Circa 1839 Elizabeth Brumwell, 1st son John Atlantic Brumwell Stephenson born at sea 6/1829 on the Brig 'Argo', Henry Layton Stephenson b, 7/1832 Singhee Bengal. Both boys were baptised 1/4/1833 Ghazeepore Northern India. (I have a copy of the original written Baptism Register rather than the India Office Transcript, as well as John's birth detail as recorded on the Argo, which includes subsequent entry details by John in later life on his original birth names and later baptism changes to it).

We also have verified birth details of John & Henry's siblings.

Unfortunately I note that a number of Family Tree's associated with our Family Group, have uploaded these incorrect details to their Trees. Can I ask that if your Tree has the incorrect information that you check against my comments and delete if you agree.

[jon541]

I completely agree with your comments regarding Thrulines and trees on Ancestry, Ian.  Both can be enormously helpful but also enormously misleading as in the examples you provided.  It's perhaps easy for me to say because I only keep a skeleton tree on there for Thrulines purposes but I make a point of never importing anyone else's entries whether or not it is correct.  I looked at Ancestry trees for an individual last week:  45 trees of which 44 were incorrect and one solitary person had it right! With such a high proportion of "fake news" out there, you begin to wonder how and when (or even if) it can ever be rectified.

I wonder if it would be worth going out on a limb and adding William Stephenson and Mary Layton as tentative parents for John on your wife's tree (maybe just for a few days until Thrulines are regenerated) as this might trigger some new (and correct this time, I hope!) connection suggestions with other descendants of that Egglestone/Romaldkirk group of Stephensons. 

BTW, in your previous post you mentioned Heyworth when you meant Heworth (for the location next door to Gateshead where the Stephensons settled on Tyneside).

[ALTZA53]

Hi Jon, thanks for your supportive comments. I have looked into some of you earlier findings regarding Leonard & Albert and was about to reply but then came across the Henry Stephenson / Mary Smith supposed connection on Ancestry's ThruLines. I am sure I came across this in a Members Tree some time ago and just dismissed it. However now seeing it appear on ThruLines as a Possible Ancestor and that a large number of Group Members had included in their Tree's I had to Post and point out the error.

I will reply to your post shortly though.

PS I have now edited my last posts re Heworth and ThruLines.

Cheers Ian