John Anderson

[Br1gau]

Hi Elaine,

If you look at the 1851 Renfrew census that Poozan first referred to, it shows:

John Anderson, Head born 1795 Renfrew
Janet Anderson, Wife born 1816 Glasgow
Therence Anderson, Daughter, born 1849, Glasgow (an odd one!)
Margaret Anderson, Daughter, born 1850 Glasgow
Louise McIntyre. Servant, born 1821 Glasgow

It's definitely a different Janet as in the one in the Perth census for 1841 (born 1791)

best wishes,
brigau

[Poozan]

Therence Anderson should be Florence.

[Poozan]

All this information is very puzzling. I don't think the Perth family has anything to do with the line I am researching but I have already downloaded a 1815 birth record for a Janet Halley, which fits with the age on the 1851 census and her death. (Alas she died in England so the certificate doesn't give her parents). This states that her parents were Thomas Halley, grocer, and Janet Mackison not Thomas Halley, wynder, and Margaret someone as on the 1841 census. I am now totally confused as to which Janet Halley is the one I am looking for!!! She called her second daughter Margaret so perhaps the 1841 census is the one I am looking for? Help please!

[Murphyz]

It may not be of interest but on Scotlands People there is a will for a Thomas Halley, residing at 169 Great Hamilton Street, Glasgow date of 24/12/1847.

They are quite expensive to buy and sometimes tell you a great deal and other times nothing, but it may be worth looking at if you think it is the right family.

[Poozan]

Dear Murphyz

Thanks for the suggestion. If I do spend the money at least I will know which Thomas Halley is my Janet's father, or so I hope!

Poozan

[AMBLY]

Hi all

I think the following is Thomas HALLEY's  widow  in 1851, and son in 1861:

1851: 35 Robertson Street, Glasgow St George, Lanarkshire
Parish 644/1, ED 38, pg 24, HS 75
Head: Margaret HALLEY 61, Landowner, b Kilmadock, Perthshire
Son: Patrick M HALLEY 24,  Bankers Clerk & Steamboat Proprietor, b Glasgow
Servant: Mary Ann GALLOWAY 28, House Servant, b Glasgow

Marriage: IGI Exctracted
Patrick MacBeth HALLEY and Catherine McCLERIE
Married about 9 Nov 1852, Glasgow

1861: 8 Lawrence Place, Govan, Partick, Glasgow , Lanarkshire
Parish 646/2, ED 10, HS 298 (half)
Head: Patrick McB HALLEY 34, Bankers Clerk, b Glasgow
Wife: Catherine HALLEY 29, b Greenock, Renfrew
Brother-in-Law: William McSERIE?? 30, Writer, b Paisley, Renfrew
Servant: Marion McLENNAN 25, b North West Hebrides

The other half of the house appears to be a family named REID.

The fact Patrick HALLEY is a steamboat proprietor is interesting.
Captain John ANDERSON, sailed a paddle-steamer "SHANDON" from Glasgow to Melbourne Australia in 1853.
He remained in Australia until abt 1859, operating a packet/passenger Service in and around Melbourne waters. He left in abt 1859 and headed to Singapore.  (This is 'our' John ANDERSON).

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

Background (I hope you don't mind Poozan) the middle names might help somewhere along the line. Although you have all this info, it might help  us 'build a picture' and figure out some clues 

"Margaret Maxwell ANDERSON"  Your gt-grandmother
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,447448.15.html

Her siblings known were:
Florence Guild ANDERSON b abt 1849 Glasgow, m singapore 1871,  (added, see reply #19)
John ANDERSON b 1852 Rothesay, Bute, died 1924 England, Knighted in 1912
Marion Fullerton ANDERSON b 1854 Rothesay, died 1933 England

Singapore newspaper
http://shrinkalink.com/36281
Margaret Maxwell ANDERSON married  November 9th 1875  in Singapore, to Thomas CUTHBERTSON.
She was stated a the "third surviving daughter of the late John ANDERSON"

http://shrinkalink.com/36282
In 1901, the Cuthbertson brothers attended a wedding in London, Eng;and  in 1901, of  John ANDERSON age 48  (b abt 1853),  recent M.L.C at Singapore.
John married Winifred Ethel Dunbar Pope on 16th January 1901

London Marriage Record
John' age 48 was a widower & his father was  stated as John ANDERSON, Master mariner and civil servant (deceased)
His first wife was dau of Admiral BUSH of Siam,  she died in 1894 I think (Singapore Newspapers clipping)

Singapore Newespaper - Obit for Marion
http://shrinkalink.com/36283
Thomas' brother JOHN CUTHERBERTSON married a Marion Fullerton ANDERSON.
When John CUTHBERTSON's widow died age 80 in 1933 (b abt 1853)  her obit states:
Her father Captain ANDERSON lived in Singapore where his wife had a small school, known as the Raffles Girls School.  Of their (Captain john Anderson & his wife's) children:
2 daughters  married the CUTHBERTSON brothers, John & Thomas.
1 son John later Sir John ANDERSON ...commenced his Straits career  in Govt Service, then Partner & Head of Gurhrie & Co.

http://shrinkalink.com/36284
ANDERSON, Sir John, Knt.— Cr. 1912.
Son of John Anderson, Esq., of Rothesay, Buteshire 
b. 1852 ; m. 1901 Winifred Ethel Dunbar-Pope, dau. 1
of John Billing Pope, Esq. Sir John Anderson was an
Unofficial M.L.C. Straits Settlements 188G-8 and
1905-9 and is a Member of the firm of Guthrie & Co.
Ltd., East India Merchants, of Singapore and London,
and Consul-Gen. for Siam in London ; appointed 2nd
Secretary to the Ministry of Health \9l9.—Eastcote
Place, near Pinner, Middlesex ; Bath Club, w. ; City
Carlton Club, e.c. ; 5, Whiitington Avenue, E.c.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/08dd/
Article including information on Captain John ANDERSOn & his son John Jnr. and including the mention that Captain J sailed the SHANDON to Melbourne when he was 60 ish

Also, John Jnr  - Sir John ANDERSON 1852-1924 - has an entry in the Oxford Dictionary of national Biography - which says:
He was a merchant, born at Rothesay, Scotland, in March 1852........"Eldest of two sons and three daughters of John Anderson (1793–1875), sea captain, and his second wife, Janet Halley, schoolteacher and a daughter of a Glasgow shopkeeper.  In 1855 Captain Anderson sailed his small paddle-steamer from Scotland to Australia......His family joined him in 1856 and settled at Geelong before moving on to Singapore about 1859. Here Captain Anderson was eventually assistant harbour-master, and his son attended Raffles Institution until he was sixteen"

I'm pretty sure I saw John Jnr stated as the ONLY son of John Snr in another of those links.

(Our Sir John not to be confused with another Sir John ANDERSON , who was a Governer of Straits, Singapore (b 1858-d 1918) & son of John ANDERSOn of Gartly Aberdeen)

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5679080?searchTerm=
Shandon arrives in Melbourne - there are voluminous hits for John sNR and the "Shandon" in the Ausie Newspapers.

http://www.wikiwak.com/texis/wcolz/viewcache.html?q=hms+bulwark+1859&h=375d41ec2f901f1e01d6d1aabd2b4dc7
Shandon. Wooden paddle steamer, 186 tons. Built at Glasgow, 1853. Left Scotland on 6 December 1853 and arrived in Me!bourne on 24 April 1854 after a voyage of 140 days under sail.  Later sold to. oveseas interests.

Death Notice in Aussie Papers for Captain John Snr.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11520872?searchTerm=ANDERSON SHANDON

Janet ANDERSON, widow of Captain John,  died in 1891 in Hampstead, age 76 (after the Census)
She appears on the 1891 Census in Hampstead age 75, b Scotland in household of her son-in-law Thomas CUTHBERTSON (who is a widower - he was later to remarry).

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

So I was thinking.....

If Patrick MacBeth HALLEY died in Scotland and if that cert said  his parents were father: Thomas, a Grocer (or a Merchant)  and mother: Margaret (maybe ms MAXWELL) it might just seal the deal for identifying Janet HALLEY ANDERSON's parents.

But I can't find him after 1861 (though it seems he's dead before 1881)  not can I find his wife in 1871   

In 1861 just after the census, he and his wife Catherine McCLERIE, had a son:
James George HALLEY b 24 Jul Anderston, Glasgow (IGI Extracted)

In 1881 and 1891, his widow Catherine HALLEY is in London England:
In 1881 Kensington - Catherine HALLEY age 52, b Scotland. She is a widow and a School Principal. No children.
She has her brother William McCLERIE  49, an Accountant, & his wife  in house.
RG11 /  Piece: 36 /  Folio: 113 /  Page: 8

In 1891 Brixton, Lambeth - age 58, Catherine HALLEY widow, b Greenock, Renfrew (bit of a fib or mistake with age)
She is visiting Marmaduke C OSBORN 63, widower, a Weslyan Minister. b Yorkshire.
RG12 /  Piece: 411 /  Folio 97 /  Page 23

Could the HALLEY family  -  your Janet's - have originally been non-conformist (Weslyan?) which is why pre-1855 there appear to be  no records for them on the OPR's?  It bothers me somewhat  that Captain John and Janet had those two daughters with "Maxwell" & "Fullerton" as middle names, yet we're not finding a connection.

Although MACKIESON  >  MAXWELL could be a name similarity they adopted, it doesn't feel right to me, somehow.  That Janet & John named their 2nd daughter "Margaret" adds a little  to the theory Janet's mother was a Margaret (though if Captn John was previously married & had children,  it may well mean the naming-pattern tool  is not going to help)

I wasn't able to find anything to confirm Margaret Maxwell CUTHBERTSON nee ANDERSON was in fact born abt 1850/1851? And wondered if she was?

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

Yes (sorry for hogging folks, but I'm on  a roll !)

Thomas HALLEY of 169 Great Hamilton Street....of the 1841 Census
Margaret was his second wife.
I think his first wife died before 1824 and he remarried that year to: Margaret MAXWELL (IGI, extracted marriage in Glasgow),

By his first wife he had issue: James 1814.   James had siblings Janet and a much younger brother, Patrick

James HALLEY was a student of Theology (died 1841) and he has a memoir biography

Memoir of the late James Halley, A.B., student of theology
http://shrinkalink.com/36287

In it :
James was the eldest child, born 17 Jan 1814
Sent to an English elementary school at the age of 6 for abt a year et&
Entered Glasgow University in 1826 while he was not yet 13 years of age.
His sister Janet accompanied him on a trip to Madiera in 1837.
He died  (16 March 1841) age 28, Janet was with him.
Mentions are made of "Great Hamilton Street" and of Janet in a context to suggest she was not married pre-1841.
His mother  died when he was about 10 (I think maybe a little bit before that?)
But he referred and wrote affectionately  to his stepmother,  as "Mother'.

http://shrinkalink.com/36288
He died of Consumption in Glasgow.

He seems to have been exceptionally fond of and close to his sister Janet.  There is a 'photo' (an engraving ) of him in the book.
I read snippets of a review of this memoir, where it said no where does it mention the actuall name of his mother.
Not did I spot a mention of his stepmother's name. Also that "The father seems to have been born in Jul 1777. His name was Thomas HALLEY  and he is recorded in the "List of Glasgow Electors 1832" as residing in Great Hamilton Street, Glasgow. His occupation was Coal Weigher".

It would appear James & Janet were issue of the first wife of Thomas HALLEY and Patrick of the second, Margaret?

But it looks promising to me -  that your Janet and John named their daughter Margaret Maxwell ANDERSON after Janet's stepmother?

On scanning thru, I thought there was a suggestion the HALLEY family may have been Associate Congregation?

Cheers
AMBLY