Andrew Millar b. c1827 Greenock, Scot - d. 1898 Ararat, Aust.

[essexclark]

I'm searching in Greenock and surrounding area for a possible birth of Andrew Millar, born approximately 1827 in Greenock, Scotland.  He completed his daughter's birth registration in late 1869 and signed in his own hand, listing his age as 43 and birthplace as Greenoch, Scotland.
Andrew married Jane Sarah Percival of London (d/o William Percival & Jane Jewell) on 8 Jan 1853 at St Peters Church of England in Eastern Hill (Melbourne), Victoria, Australia.  They had the following children: Andrew 1856-1891, William Percival 1860-1941, Sarah Jane 1863-1903, George Adam 1864-1935, Edward Alfred 1866-1919, Albert Ernest 1867-1946, Emma Ann 1869-1947, Minnie Frances 1872-1962, Hugh 1873-? and John Henry 1876-1879.
We have been unable to find the arrival of Andrew into Australia, but know it was before January 1853.  If anyone is able to locate an Andrew Millar leaving Greenock for Australia before 1853 or had an Andrew among the siblings of their ancestor who immigrated that may help.
Andrew's occupation has been listed on various records in Australia as Miner, Carpenter and Labourer.  We know he worked mainly as a Goldminer in Ararat.  Like many before him, he may have been a ships carpenter who jumped ship in Australia during the gold rush.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.  More inforation on Andrew can be found on my Website.
Please DO NOT move this post to the Australian board as this is where I want it placed.
Thank you,
Diane

[Greenemma]

William Percival Miller/Millar married 1884 in Ararat to Selina Poad 1864 - 1943 Prahran, Vic.

They had 6 children
Ruby, William, Eva, Edward, Charles, Albert.

I am related to the Poad family.

[essexclark]

I also have 6 children for William Percival Millar.  It is his father that I am stuck on.  He was definitely not the s/o Andrew Millar 1795-? and Jean Lochhead 1789-1875.  Their son Andrew married Mary Scobie and never left Scotland.  That Andrew died in hospital in Glasgow.  Can't remember the year off hand, but it was before the death of our Andrew.

[Forfarian]

Greenock is in Renfrewshire. There are 3 recorded baptisms of an Andrew Mill*r in Renfrewshire between 1825 and 1828.

Son of John Millar and Jean Thomson, baptised 17 September 1826 in Eaglesham. This Andrew may be the one living with the family of James Murray and Margaret Millar in 1841, and in 1851 he is still in Eaglesham, described as nephew to James Murray. He may or may not be the one who died in Neilston in 1880 aged 53, mother's maiden surname Thomson.

Son of James Millar and Agnes Robertson, baptised 20 December 1827 in Paisley Burgh. This one was with his parents in Eaglesham in 1841. In 1851 I think he is a writer's (lawyer's) clerk, in Greenock with his grandmother Agnes Robertson. I have not found a death for him, but in 1861 Andrew Miller, 30, general clerk writer's office, born Paisley, is in Johnstone, with a wife Jane Rae and two children, James R and Agness, so he can probably be ruled out.

Son of Andrew Miller and Jean Lochead, baptised 7 September 1828 in Paisley Abbey. This one is in the 1841 census in Elderslie with his parents, and is probably the one who died in Glasgow Bridgeton in 1887, aged 58, mother's maiden surname Lochhead.

There is a fourth Andrew Millar in Paisley in the 1841 census, aged 15, son of Adam Miller and Sarah. He's recorded as 15, but in 1841 adults' ages were spposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years so he could be anything from 15 to 19, so he's a bit old to be your Andrew, but his baptism isn't in the surviving records.

In 1851 there's yet another not listed above, but he is already married with three children so unlikely to be yours.

Your next step would be to check those two deaths to see if they can be eliminated. If so, then it's going to be a very tricky task to find your Andrew in Scotland because he would appear to be one of the many whose baptism records don't, or no longer, exist.

Could he have emigrated before the 1841 census?

[essexclark]

I've been studying them for years.  Some I have matched to other wives. Some not.  The one I have my eye on is the last one you mentioned.
"There is a fourth Andrew Millar in Paisley in the 1841 census, aged 15, son of Adam Miller and Sarah. He's recorded as 15, but in 1841 adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years so he could be anything from 15 to 19, so he's a bit old to be your Andrew, but his baptism isn't in the surviving records".
My Andrew was born about 1825/26.  I am working on the information he himself provided when he completed my gt grandmother's birth record in 1869.  He recorded his age as 43 and birthplace as Greenock.  Figured that he knew more about himself than William, who completed his death record and had him from Glasgow.
Andrew s/o Adam and Sarah was a convict transported to Tasmania in 1843.  I've managed to trace the convict up to 1849 in Tasmania but then no trace.  That give four years between the convict and Andrew and Janes marriage in Jan 1853.
Having read the report and court appearance for three of his children (Albert Emma and Minnie) after they were caught for begging and theft, he doesn't seem to to have been a nice man.  Still, I cannot claim the convict until I can fill in those last 4 years.
My gt grandmother was Emma Ann b. 1869.
I was talking to an old Scot a while ago and he suggested that Andrew may have actually been from Port of Glasgow and William mixed the two up when completing the death record.  Port of Glasgow is only about 4 miles from Greenock on the Abbey side.  A lot of baptisms seem to have taken place in Abbey.
Email me directly if you like defect@outlook.com.au

[Forfarian]

Andrew may have actually been from Port of Glasgow and William mixed the two up when completing the death record.  Port of Glasgow is only about 4 miles from Greenock on the Abbey side.  A lot of baptisms seem to have taken place in Abbey.

Yes, that's quite possible.

Have a look at https://maps.nls.uk/view/216442701. It shows the parishes in Renfrewshire, and in particular Port Glasgow (not Port of Glasgow) sandwiched between Greenock and Kilmacolm. You might like to read the articles about it at https://stataccscot.ed.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Renfrew/Port%20Glasgow.

Abbey and Burgh are the two parishes that make up Paisley. The parishes of Erskine, Inchinnan, Houston, Kilbarchan and part of Renfrew are between Kilmacolm and Paisley.

I am not sure why someone living in Port Glasgow would go all the way to Paisley to have their children baptised, but perhaps they belonged to a minority sect or religion that did not have a place of worship in Port Glasgow, Greenock or Kilmacolm.

That does look like a good bet for your Andrew, given that the other three who are in Renfrewshire in 1841 still seem to have been there or nearby in 1861 and later.

[essexclark]

Slip of the pen . . . or should I say finger.  I did know it was Port Glasgow and not Port of Glasgow.  It is only a thought that he may have actually been from there, because his son William recorded him as being from Glasgow when we know that Andrew himself said he was from Greenock.  I figured that William mixed up Port Glasgow with Glasgow itself.  He may have even been from somewhere in between.
I very much doubt that all the records have been transcribed yet and just as many more may not have survived.  His baptism may yet appear on records in the future.  I'm still hoping to fill in the gap between the 1849 muster in Tasmania and when Andrew married in Victorian in Jan 1853.  The convict sounds likely but still need more proof
It doesn't help when so many people have recorded the incorrect parents for him, just because it comes up in an Ancestry Hint.  They don't do their homework and accept anything Ancestry throws at them whether it is right or wrong.  What I need is to find a DNA match with someone who descends from one of his siblings.  I have tons of Scottish DNA matches but none where I recognise the names.

[Forfarian]

I very much doubt that all the records have been transcribed yet and just as many more may not have survived.  His baptism may yet appear on records in the future.

Don't hold your breath, or imagine that there is a large quantity of such records waiting to be made available, because there isn't.

From the late 16th century IIRC the Church of Scotland was tasked by government with keeping records of all baptisms and marriages, irrespective of the denomination of the people involved. Naturally this did not happen, for many reasons including clerical negligence, difficulty of collecting information in remote areas or in very populous places, reluctance of other denominations to co-operate, and so on.

At the start of civil registration in 1855 all the Church of Scotland congregations were required to send their surviving registers of baptisms, proclamations and burials to the Registrar General, and these now form the bulk of the pre-1855 holdings of Scotland's People. Subsequently many registers - maybe even the majority - of other denominations' pre-1855 registers have found their way into the National Records of Scotland.

All but a tiny handful of the records held by the National Records of Scotland have been digitised and are available at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. The few that have not are the registers of a few Free Church congregations where permission to include them has not been obtained, usually because the congregation no longer exists and it is not clear wh owns them. However the Free Church only came into existence in 1843 so its records will not contain the baptism of 'your' Andrew Miller/Millar.

Scotland's People also has all the records of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland.

Apart from these, a very small number of registers from dissenting churches, and some records of the Episcopal Church, Congregational Church, Baptist Church etc still lurk in diocesan, local or university archives. But the emphasis is on 'very small'.

Before the start of civil registration in 1855, a significant proportion of baptisms is known to be missing from the surviving records. The further back you go, the more gaps there are. I have seen estimates that the missing proportion in the early 19th century is about a third.

The overwhelming probability is that Adam Mill*r and Sarah either didn't bother to have their children baptised, or had them baptised but for some reason or other no record has survived.

She may have been Sarah Murdoch; there is a record of the marriage of Adam Millar and Sarah Murdoch in Paisley in 1821, which would fit; and Sarah is not a very common name in Scotland.

It occurs to me to wonder if you have had a look at the Watt Library https://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/community-life-and-leisure/heritage-services/collections/watt-library which holds the archives of Inverclyde Council.

[essexclark]

No I hadn't heard of the Watt Library.  Thanks for the link. 
I have been warned by many that it is possible that the parents never registered the children.  It seems unlikely that the entry pages for all would be unreadable unless the whole book had been destroyed. 
I've also considered the possibility that Greenock wasn't Andrew's birthplace but the place he was living at the time he left Scotland.  If that is the case, he could have been born anywhere
From the 1851 census for Adam, Sarah and the 3 children remaining at home, the children's birthplace was listed as Paisley.  That leaves me no doubt that the convict was from this family, but no proof that they were the family of my Andrew.   
He may remain a mystery, unless I get a DNA match to descendants of a sibling or cousin.
Thanks for all the information.