The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 5)

[Colin Cruddace]

Yes, good thought Colin. It was certainly where all the action took place in those days.

I just tried googling Eccleston Wharf and just found links to Nat's diary. 

That's not surprising, that's where all the action is going on these days 

[deb usa]

Hi everyone

Although I have grown to like NB, I still have to say that he is rather narcissistic (sp?)! I think i had mentioned it in part 1 .....or 2, or 3 or 4 .............


Too late here to mention all references but I do not feel that he is not in touch with his mum ...I do think he likes/loves Granny Shepard ...he feels sorry that she had to get up to help her kids that were sick (his mum and uncle John) ...he mentions how granny lost her 2nd to last tooth etc etc ...he writes with feeling about HER ... so why not everyone else?

deb


I knew some maid had kissed him at the wharf ...didn't remember that she was the nursery maid! 

deb again

 

[waiteohman]

What an interesting coincidence. I have a Waite-Lee marriage 1840 with fathers John Waite, cordwainer/shoemaker born 1793 and George Lee of the same profession born abt 1789. I just came across this Bailey proceeding. What is interesting is there is John Waite, George Lee and also a Mr. Sheppard involved. 
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09ff/

[waiteohman]

Found these on the Bailey

ISAAC CLEWS, ROBERT WILKINSON, Theft > stealing from master, 11th June 1849.
1305.   ISAAC CLEWS and   ROBERT WILKINSON , stealing 1 1/2 a ton of coals, value 10s.; the goods of    George Lea, their master: to which they pleaded
GUILTY. Recommended to mercy. — Confined One Month.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09fg/

CHARLES CARTER, Theft > animal theft, 5th February 1877.
229.   CHARLES CARTER (25) , Stealing a gelding, the property of   Thomas Lea and others. Second Count—Feloniously receiving the same.
DAVID JOHNSON . I live at East End, Finchley, and am a carman, in the employ of Messrs. Lea & Co., coal merchants—they have several depots about town, and one at the back of the Wellington Tavern, Highgate Archway, where we stabled four horses ...
GEORGE LEA . I am a member of the firm of Thomas Lea & Co., coal merchants—the horse that was lost is ours and is worth 100 guineas—I caused these bills to be printed, they were circulated all over London, Hammersmith amongst other places; the description in the bills accurately represents the horse—I afterwards saw it at the Hammersmith police-station.
Cross-examined. I had had it about four or five months, I bought it myself with another and gave 172l. for the two, this was the more valuable one of the two.
  JOHN SMITH . I am a labourer in Messrs. Lea's employment—I distributed bills
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09fh/

[drykid]

I just tried googling Eccleston Wharf and just found links to Nat's diary. 

I discovered this thread a few days ago, and have been lurking ever since (after reading through all the pages of all 5 parts - phew!) It's really great that other people are as fascinated as I am.  And some of the information turned up has been really informative, especially Ann's age.  It's also clarified a few things that I'd been wondering about previously, such as where Nathaniel is buried, and whether he has any surviving relatives. (The picture of his gravestone is particularly evocative, knowing his fascination with churchyards and inscriptions, I wonder what he would have made of it himself...)

Anyway I had to respond to the post above, because googling "Eccleston Wharf" is how I discovered this thread in the first place.  I often google places mentioned in the diary to see if they're still around, or to find out how long they've been gone for if they aren't. But this was the first time it's led to this forum.


Sorry I can't contribute anything genealogy-wise, as it's something I know very little about.  The only thing I have discovered is a tiny bit more info about Aleck Abrahams' previous quoting from the diaries.  Someone previously quoted from a 1914 "Notes and Queries" that suggested he had access to the 1848 diary; from poking around online it seems he had access to the 1846 one as well; see the following quote from Notes and Queries, 1911; s11-IV: 26:

......Gardens. Adieu to relics." This slightly corrects the date of demoli-tion ("1848-50") given by Mr. Warwick Wroth (' London Pleasure Gardens '). The writer was C. Bryceson, then a junior clerk at Messrs. Lea's coal wharf, Pimlico. ALECK ABBAHAMS....

http://nq.oxfordjournals.org/search.dtl

This is clearly quoting the diary entry from 8th March 1846.  So it would seem that as recently as the turn of the last century, both 1846 and 1848 diaries (and therefore possibly more?) were either in the posession of Aleck Abrahams or accessible to him.  AA does seem fond of quoting obscure books and journals to correct various points via "Notes and Queries"; searching his name via the above link returns a vast number of entries by him.  Either he was a frequent library visitor or he amassed his own collection of books.  If the latter then I can't help wondering what happened to them all.

- Ian

[tedscout]

Welcome aboard, Drykid.

It is fascinating here - its amazing what these guys find about our NB

  Ted

[Siamese Girl]

Hello Ian and welcome 

Yes I wondered about Aleck Abrahams and how he got the copies of Nat's diaries - I didn't know N&Q published an extract in 1911. I speculated that ther Brycesons might have had a major clear out in 1911 after both the Nathaniels died and Mr Abrahams bought the diaries. I can't access N&Q - do you know the date when ithe article was published? Both Nats died at the beginning of the year so if the article was published at the end I suppose my idea might still work.

I'm sorry my idea about the dog didn't work - I was half hoping Nat might be showing a sense of humour - and I have  been wondering what had happened to the puppies 

Carole

[drykid]

Yes I wondered about Aleck Abrahams and how he got the copies of Nat's diaries - I didn't know N&Q published an extract in 1911. I speculated that ther Brycesons might have had a major clear out in 1911 after both the Nathaniels died and Mr Abrahams bought the diaries. I can't access N&Q - do you know the date when ithe article was published? Both Nats died at the beginning of the year so if the article was published at the end I suppose my idea might still work.

If you look at the index page for 1911 (assuming you can access it) then s11-IV (80) is in the seventh of twelve boxes:

http://nq.oxfordjournals.org/archive/1911.dtl

If these correspond to months (which seems likely since all the boxes either have 4 or 5 issues in them) then this would make it mid-July 1911, so there's nothing there to contradict the theory that AA acquired the volumes after a sale of Nathaniel's posessions following his death.  Given the contents of the diaries, I can't imagine NB having sold them himself prior to his death, and if he'd thrown them away then it would be unlikely that any would have survived.

Would be interesting to trace what became of Abrahams, although so much time has passed that I suspect that it wouldn't be very fruitful.  But the lady who sold the 1846 diary to Westminster Council in the 70s seems like a more positive line of enquiry; she could still be alive, and even if she isn't then it's likely that a son or daughter will be.

I'm sorry my idea about the dog didn't work - I was half hoping Nat might be showing a sense of humour - and I have  been wondering what had happened to the puppies 

If it's any consolation then I thought it sounded plausible.  Given that it's a diary then there's no reason why NB wouldn't make obscure jokes that would probably pass people by if made publicly.  I still don't see why a wharf would have a nursery maid. But clearly it did.

- Ian

[steve_gus]

I searched for ecclestone wharf several times, and nothing comes up. The 1846 map i have linked to a few times shows the Grosvenor canal going up to the basin that is now the site of victoria station. The map shows Ecclestone rd running north south to the left of the canal. Several wharfs are on the map, but Ecclestone isnt. My theory is that the wharf would have been towards the topleft of the canal possibly on the basin itself which would be better for unloading coal barges.

Canary wharf isnt a working area anymore, its now houses, so the modern concept of a wharf is a housing area. I would expect a wharf that moved over 1000 tons of dusty coal each month on an industrial canal in 1846 to be a bit different.

Perhaps George Lee was 150 years ahead of his time in workplace childcare But all the coal workers were men, and the women would be at home.... so why a nursemaid on an industrial coal wharf?

I hope the pups are OK, but there is a convenient canal nearby