The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 5)

[deb usa]

Thanks Shaun

Looking at the 1841 and counting the 'double lines' demarcating different houses, it looks like Matthew Ward was at #7

deb

Hi 

sorry about confusing  the situation ...

[Ruskie]

Morning Deb.
Nite Deb.

I'm calling it a night and will see you in the morning/evening. How confusing is that? 
Interesting but puzzling finds that Carole has made (Vagg/Bagg  )

I'll leave it with you for now. 

[Siamese Girl]

The 1841 census has two families of Bryceson living in Middlesex, Henry the organ maker with Frances his wife and children Frances, Henry and John living in the Tottenham Court Road and William and Mary with their children Mary, Thomas, Ann Sarah, John and Ebenezer in Brunswick Terrace Hackney. There are two odd Brycesons - Henery Brycson 15 living at St Georges Hanover Square and this Mary Bryceson aged 20 living with Marion Bagg aged 30 (born in Scotland) who used to be a Bryceson. Marion's husband was George Bagg whose death (reg Dec 1838) left her with a baby George, and another due (Marion birth reg March 1839)

There just aren't that many Brycesons living in London. I know we don't know if Mary Shephard's husband John was related to the organ makers but the signature of the witness at their marriage Henry Bryceson is the same as the one who witnessed Marion Bryceson's marriage to George Bagg. I just can't see who this Mary Bryceson who was living with Marion could be. A Mary Bryceson married James Robinson in 1844 but she was William Bryceson's daughter.

I just wondered if it might be a mistake in the census and this Mary is our Mary - there may still  have been some contact with the Bryceson family and poor Marion probably needed some support.

PS I'm glad I'm not a Bagg!

Carole

[Steven Bryceson]

Hi all, I just got internet access! Excited to see the grave (though sorry by the faded inscriptions) and looking forward to seeing myself on afternoon of 15th August if anyone want to join me! All joy, Steven. ps. meanwhile I am exploring some glorious churches!

[Ruskie]

Hello Steven. I'm glad you've managed to log on and see the photo of the Nathaniels and Sarah's grave. Exciting, but disappointing that the inscription is not readable. But at least the stone is still standing.

Please take some detailed photos, closeups etc when you visit on the 15th. I'm not a photographer, but I've read that sometimes if you take photos of the stone at an angle shadows can reveal some letters. Even if you manage to get something, the folks on the photo restoration board may be able to enhance and work out what it says.

I would love to join you when you visit the grave. (oops sorry wrong country  - very very sad that I won't be visiting - for some time at least )

Are you able to tell us where you are visiting all these churches?

Looking forward to Monday and THE famous shorthand diary entry. I hope you'll be online when we're discussing that! 

[Ruskie]

The 1841 census has two families of Bryceson living in Middlesex, Henry the organ maker with Frances his wife and children Frances, Henry and John living in the Tottenham Court Road and William and Mary with their children Mary, Thomas, Ann Sarah, John and Ebenezer in Brunswick Terrace Hackney. There are two odd Brycesons - Henery Brycson 15 living at St Georges Hanover Square and this Mary Bryceson aged 20 living with Marion Bagg aged 30 (born in Scotland) who used to be a Bryceson. Marion's husband was George Bagg whose death (reg Dec 1838) left her with a baby George, and another due (Marion birth reg March 1839)

There just aren't that many Brycesons living in London. I know we don't know if Mary Shephard's husband John was related to the organ makers but the signature of the witness at their marriage Henry Bryceson is the same as the one who witnessed Marion Bryceson's marriage to George Bagg. I just can't see who this Mary Bryceson who was living with Marion could be. A Mary Bryceson married James Robinson in 1844 but she was William Bryceson's daughter.

I just wondered if it might be a mistake in the census and this Mary is our Mary - there may still  have been some contact with the Bryceson family and poor Marion probably needed some support.

PS I'm glad I'm not a Bagg!

Carole

The stray Mary Bryceson may be ours. It's just the age that doesn't fit. I haven't had a look at the census entry but will do so in a minute. Another thing to consider is that if Marion Bagg was born in Scotland and we know that Bryceson is a Scottish name, maybe this Mary Bryceson has Scottish connections too?

Perhaps the Mary Bryceson who married James Robinson in 1844 is the same Mary as in the census. If her father is William then both her age and father are wrong and she's not our Mary.

It might be worth looking at Marion Bagg nee Bryceson - I wonder who her father is? The H Byrceson who is the serial witness - now that IS curious and proves a connection of some sort.

As you say, Bryceson is a rare name in London so not really surprising if we discover that they are all related.

[Ruskie]

I've been trying to find Marion Bagg and the children in 1851 (I was hoping that we might find whereabouts in Scotland she was born) but I haven't had any luck yet. I thought Marion may have remarried so searched for Marion b 1839 with mother Marion (no surname) and all I could find was a Wakefield family which I'm not sure is them.

Another thing that I'm not sure about with the Mary Bryceson living with Marion in 1841, apart from the age, is that she is 'Independent'. Does that seem feasible? 

[Ruskie]

Right, I've just had a look at the signatures of witness H Bryceson on the marriage entries for Marion Bryceson and George Bagg and Mary Shepard and John Bryceson.

They're not the same.

It looks like the entries on the same page as the Shepard/Bryceson marriage are all written in the same hand ie, none of the signatures on the page are in the handwriting of any of the parties involved. On the Bryceson/Shepard entries it looks like each person signed their own names.

Of course it is still possible that it is the same H Bryceson witnessing both marriages.   

[deb usa]

hi Steven


Would love to join you, but much like Ruskie, I am on a different continent. I will be happy to live vicariously through you though 

re the Gravestone of NB .... if the moss/lichen was removed carefully would you be able to do some etchings which may reveal some other detail ?


I could see the "SAH" BRYCESON ...ie his Wife ...

Maybe if the photo was taken from a different angle we may be able to spot more ....

Mongibello .... you did a great job finding the stone... many pats on the back again from me 

deb

Morning Ruskie ...as usual night time here  LOL