1861 census Thomas Morris bn St Issells Completed thank you

[rosie99]

Hi

I am looking for Thomas Morris and his wife Margaret (Hughes) in 1861 and afterwards.  They are not my direct line so have no idea what happened to them. 

Thomas was born at Stepaside/St Issells c1836 - son of William Morris and Ann Evans.
In 1841 HO107 Piece1448 F7 P7
and
1851 HO107  Piece2475 F784 P14      he is living at Stepaside with his parents.

Margaret was born c1833 at Narberth, Pembrokeshire - dtr of Joseph and Ann Hughes.
In 1841 she is with her parents HO107 Piece 1448 F 18/3 P1, in Narberth.
in 1851 she is still in Narberth but a servant  HO107 Piece 2475 F480   P4

They married 5th December 1857 at St Issells. Thomas's occupation was a collier on his marriage.

I would be very grateful for any help on this.

Rosie

[Orielbenfro]

A search of my own 1861 census it is as I suspected Ann is a widow by 1861, after all William was 72 in 1841. However Ann has been somewhat circumspect about her own age.

Ann Morris resides in Stepaside with John 32 a coalminer, George 21 a coalminer, William 8 a scholar. They are living at Lower Level, which is probably down in the bottom of Plesant Valley or still in the valley but up by the old iron works.

Next door I notice John & Rachel Morris a Grocer

I am surprised that I can not locate the mrge of Joseph Hughes to Ann (?), in the direct area, all I can find is Joseph Hughes to Ann Rees 03 Aug 1830 at Lampeter Velfrey and I notice that whilst William Morris is a blacksmith in '41 he was a brazier at the time of his mrge.

From experience I am aware the Hughes surname has a long history in the area of your interest and from my database of all names places, relationships bequests and positions in all wills proven for the parish of St Issells 1600 to 1858 I note a good number of wills on the NLoW which make reference to both the surnames of Morris and Hughes. I have x/ref'd and double checked and from my database can find no will with has both surname morris and hughes in the same will (which I hoped to find).

Trust the above is of assistance
Rgds
Oreilbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[rosie99]

Hi

Thank you very much for all the information. 
 
Thomas is the only child of William and Ann Morris that I am unable to locate from birth to death on census, my direct line comes from his sister Mary. I did wonder whether perhaps they had emigrated but first I was after a second pair of eyes looking for him on census.

Rosie
 

[Orielbenfro]

From my own private census collection (Pensioner can not afford Ancestry) I searched all the obvious places, Amroth, Begelly, Thomas Chapel, Martletwy Lawrenny etc.,  based on trade ~ nothing, so went out of area and have come up with two further possibilities for you to consider ;

R.G. 09 Piece 4055 Folio 44 Schedule 204 (Ecc. District 204)
62 Yew Street Troedyrhiw Lower Glam
Thomas Morris H M 37 Labourer in Iron Wrks Pem Narberth
Elizabeth Morris W M 31 - Pembs Freystrop
Mary Morris D U 06 Scholar Gla Merthyr
William Lewis Bord U 68 Disabled Pembs Freystrop


R.G. 9 Piece 4051 Folio 11 Schedule 078 (Ecc District 05)
1 Colliers Row Lower Ynysfach Glam
Thomas Morris H M 31 Ironstone Miner Pembs
Elizabeth Morris W M 34 - Pembs
Margaret Morris D U 04 - Glam Merthyr.

I realise wife's forname is wrong, but could be a remarry. I note enough instances of the death of a Margaret Morris ('58) and a further mrge of a Thomas ('59) to warrent some consideration.

Interestingly I can find the baptism of Thomas's older sibling but not Thomas. He certainly wasn't baptised in St Issells or the local unless he's non-conformist.
He would not be the 1st where I have found the majority of children baptised parish church and the last couple of children from the same parents are baptised non-conformist, indeed I have that exact situation with the Oriel family.

Hope this helps
Rgds
Orielbenfro

[rosie99]

Hi Orielbenfro

Thank you again    Much appreciated.  I will investigate these families further, its always a possibility she died and he remarried.   

William and Ann didn't seem to have a pattern as to whether the children were christened or not, I did wonder whether they just did the boys but even that wasn't true.

I found an entry on the 1880 US census that I thought could be them so posted the query here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=471752.new#new

It is also a possibility for me to investigate.  They should still be in Wales in 1861 though.

Rosie

[rosie99]

Message from Orielbenfro transferred from  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,471797.msg3330579.html#msg3330579

Had a quick look at the St Issells parish registers today at the R.O. for the period 1858 to 1862.
I note there are no childred baptised to Thomas & Margaret Morris, however I did note that there are Morris children baptised to only 2 sets of Morris parents during this period they are ; Thomas & Mary Morris plus Lewis & Margaret Morris !!
Are you thinking what I'm thinking ?? Is there an error somewhere along the line in the official recordings? Or did they fly the village the day after mrge, if so I can only think of one reason.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[rosie99]

Hi

Many thanks for looking at St Issells Parish registers for me.  Unfortunately I know who Lewis/Margaret and Thomas/Mary are, regrettably not my family and I have found them in later census.

I still have not found my Thomas and Margaret in 1861.   

I have on another post got a possible Thos/Mgt in USA but they were still having children in Wales in 1865 and don't appear to have emigrated until later though before 1871, so I should be able to find them in 1861 with a daughter Elizabeth but no such luck.

Rosie

[Chris101]

Hi Rosie99
William Morris and Ann Morris nee Evans were my Gtx3 GP, through their son George (1840-1921), on my mother's side, and Ann's brother, Henry Evans, was a Gtx3 GF on my father's side. On marriage in 1826, William was ~61 and Ann was ~27-28, and from the christening date of son William in 1826 (who seems to have died young), she was pregnant on marriage.

Like you, I have traced William and Ann's children in later censuses, but not Thomas.

Re. baptisms, as Orielbenfro has mentioned, perhaps the other children were baptised elsewhere. Many of Ann's Evans family are buried at Sardis chapel, including William and Ann's daughter Elizabeth (Allen). According to Pembrokeshire Cenquest, Pembrokeshire CRO has records of baptisms at Sardis for 1803-1837.

You mentioned that you were related via daughter Mary, presumably after her marriage to Thomas Marsh. In the 1861 census, the "son" William (aged was their grandson, an illegitimate son of Mary (born 21 December 1852). There is an interesting article on William after his emigration to Australia in the late 1880s at the following URL:
(http://snorbens.wordpress.com/2010/08/page/2/)

Regards
Chris101

[rosie99]

Hi Chris

Welcome to rootschat,  how nice to hear from you.     

Yes, Mary Morris was my gt gt grandmother through her marriage to Thomas Marsh.
 
Thank you also for the link to Joyce's blog. I am in contact with the family in Ipswich, Australia but only because of my postings on here.  They did not know where Mary had gone after William was born and although I knew of William I hadn't done any research as to whose child he was.

So your roots are truly in Stepaside,  I know that Henry Evans daughter married John Morris and that Matilda Phillips who married William is also descended from the Evans family but have to confess I haven't done anything much on the Morris family since I did this post apart from corresponding with Williams family. 

Rosie


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