Harbour-Cooper in Sussex

[lilith28]

Joseph Harbour married Emmy Sands in 1799, Lewes, Sussex. Their son Richard Harbour, b 1813, worked as a baker in Battle. In  Oct. 1844 he married Mary Smith, "widow," b. 1810, daughter of William Smith, in Battle. Richard and Mary had two daughters, Emma Harbour (b 1876) and Eliza Harbour(b1878).  There is some mystery about two previous children, Amelia Harbour-Cooper (b. 1863, Lewes) and William Frederick Harbour-Cooper (b. 1866) William and Amelia are either the children of Richard Harbour and a woman named Amelia Cooper, or they are the children of Mary Smith and an unknown Cooper male. who later added the Harbour to their Cooper surname because they liked the name. Either Richard or Mary is the step parent of these two. Does anyone have any information regarding this, particularly something confirmed by birth or marriage certificates? Or can you point me in the right direction to search? Any information about the Harbour, Smith, Cooper or Harbour-Cooper family will be greatly appreciated.

[lizdb]

Welcome to Rootschat!

Can you confirm the dates you are quoting -
Richard born 1813
Richard and MAry married 1844
Richard and Mary had children 1876 and 1878

unusual to wait over 20 years before having family, esp when you're in your 60's.

And then the 2 children with the query about them are born after his marriage to Mary?

[lizdb]

Here are Richard and Mary in 1881
RG11 1034 13 20
Lake, Battle

Richard 67 Baker bn Lewes
Mary 70 wife bn Battle

seeing Mary's age she is definitely not going to be the mother of any of the children with the birthdates you mention.

Here they are in 1871
RG10 1036 15 21
Upper Lake, Battle
Richard 58 Baker bn Lewes
Mary 60 bn Battle
Jane Grandaughter 9 bn Battle

Can you tell us where you found the children Emma and Eliza, and why you thought they were children of this couple? Also where you found Amelia and William?

[lizdb]

AHA !!!

All making sense now
I think you just had wrong dob's for the children mentioned

1851
Ho107 1636 404 3
Lake Street Battle

Richard Harbour 40 Baker empl 1 boy and son bn Lewes
Mary wife 41 b Battle
Amelia 18 dtr bn Lewes
William 15 son bn Brighton
Emma 5 dtr bn Battle
Eliza 3 dtr bn Battle
Daniel Tester lodger
Mary Tester lodger.

It looks as if Ameilia and William are his children from a first marriage

1841
HO107 1120 6
High Street Lewes
Richard Harbour 25 Baker Y
Amelia 25 Y
Amelia 6 Y
William 5 Y

the only fly in the ointment is tha I cant see a death for Ameila between 1841-1844 

[lilith28]

Thank you very much for the help. Sorry to be so much trouble, but have been researching online for the past 16 hours and am totally loopy by this point. Can't see straight let alone do the math!

Glad you found Amelia the mother. Cannot understand why young Amelia and William have Cooper as their last name. Rchard's name Harbour is something they choose to add.  Some of William's children used Harbour-Cooper and some did not. Amelia and William's younger siblings by Mary Smith only use the Harbour, so Cooper must have been their mother Amelia's name. Perhaps she and Richard weren't  actually married?

Thanks so much for all your help. I've got a long way to go but this is a good beginning.

[lizdb]

Where have you seen them with Harbour-Cooper surname?


Here is William's christeening
from IGI extracted record

15 Jan 1837
St Nicholas Brighton
William Harbour
parents Richard and Amelia Harbour

[avm228]

Connected, perhaps?

Baptism, 2 Sep 1833, Brighton

Frederick John HARBOUR, s/o Frederick Richard HARBOUR and Amelia

[lizdb]

Seeing the surname of the lodgers, I wonder if this is possibly your Richards marriage (rather than the one to Mary Smith - unless you have that cert and it confirms it for sure). If not, I guess it is someone linked to your lot.

from IGI
extracted
Marriage
26 March 1845
Richard Tester Harber to Mary Chesener
Kirdford Sussex.

[avm228]

Seeing the surname of the lodgers, I wonder if this is possibly your Richrds marriage (rather than the one to Mary Smith - unless you have that cert and it confirms it for sure). If not, I guess it is someone linked to your lot.

26 March 1845
Richard Tester Harber to Mary Chesener
Kirdford Sussex.

I initially thought that too - but then found a likely-looking HARBER couple with a Kirdford-born son in 1881: RG11/775/101/10 (also 1861 at RG9/487/64/16).