Harbour-Cooper in Sussex

[avm228]

This may be our William in 1871:

1871 census: RG10/629/39/19
8 Brook St, Bermondsey

William HARBOUR Head Mar 36 Labourer in saw yard Sussex Battle
Mary do Wife Mar 25 Sussex Battle
William do Son 2 Scholar Surrey Bermondsey
Jane do Daur 8mo Surrey Bermondsey
John JARRETT Boarder Unm 31 Labourer in saw yard Surrey Balham

[lizdb]

Do you think the Harker family look a strong possibilty for WIllliam Harber, Anna?  
The discovery of that birth under Harker makes me doubt a bit.

I was looking for the nephew Alfred James  in 1851 but have come up with a possible for him under Cooper!!

HO107 1644 53 38
High Street Brighton
Frederick Cooper 35 fishmonger bn Brighton
Elizabeth 22 wife bn B'ton
Alfred 6 son bn Bton
John 1 son bn Bton
Jane Har..... (indexed Harther) 45 visitor bn Plymouth?

Just seen your 1871 one (red letters came up) - labourer bn Battle? I preffered my Baker bn Brighton as it fitted in with previous knowledge of him, but he could have changed between 1861 and 71!

[avm228]

The trouble with the HARKERs is that they really do seem to be HARKERs!

E.g. this marriage

Marriage Jun qtr 1859

William Henry HARKER
Mary Ann HAYLES

on same page, Brighton 2b 275

WHH stays in Shoreham, always as William H HARKER, through 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 and dies Shoreham Sep qtr 1901.

[lizdb]

Marriage
Jul/Aug/Sep/ 1848
Brighton
2b 402

Frederick Cooper / one of brides Ethelinda Elizabeth Harker

So that has more or less established the link between the Frederick Cooper and Harker. Frederick's son is then a nephew to William H Harker, the Baker born Brighton.

The question is, IS William H Harker, baker bn Brighton on 1861 the same guy as William Harber, son of Richard the baker and Amelia, chr Brighton, with Richard etc in 1851.

As you say, the Harkers seem to be Harkers not Harbours ... but they do have a link with Coopers  which may just be an added confusion of course!

Perhaps I better stop adding confusion till lilith comes back to say where the HArbour/Cooper connection was found!

[avm228]

I must admit I can't easily find WHH in 1851, but in 1841 there is a 7 yr old Wm. HARKER in the household of John & Jane HARKER in Brighton: HO107/1123/1/32/14.

ETA: and his parents John and Jane seem to have baptised a batch of their children in 1844 (IGI, extracted):

WILLIAM HENRY HARKER (+3 others)
Christening:  22 MAR 1844  St Peter, Brighton
Parents: JOHN HARKER & JANE 

[lizdb]

I think that John and Jane might be at HO107 1644 40 30 in 1851 - writing is dire and not all children tie up with 1841 tho' some do.
10 High Street Brighton (he was a tailor in 1841 I noticed, and so is this one).
William H is not with them.

[lilith28]

WOW! All I can say is thank you ALL for your interest in my topic and for the effort you're putting into solving these puzzles for me. Here is the info that I can give you from BMD certificates I have in hand:

Richard Harbour, 30, Bachelor, Baker, son of Joseph Harbour, Gardener, Battle, married Mary Smith, 34, Widow, Servant, dau of William Smith, Baker, Battle , Oct. 184? , Parish Church, Battle.

Elizabeth Harbour b 10 May 1848 dau of Richard Harbour and Mary Smith Harbour, Battle.

Emma Harbour, b 4 Aug 1844, dau of Richard Harbour and Mary Smith Harbour, Battle

William Frederick Harbour Cooper, age 25, son of Richard Harbour, baker, married Mary King, 20, dau of George King, labourer,  19 Nov 1865 St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey.

Birth certificates for: George William Harbour Cooper 5 Jan 1874 Bermondsey;  Rosa Harbour Cooper 12 Sept 1875 Bermondsey; Albert Harbour Cooper 18 Oct 1883; William Frederick Harbour Cooper and Mary (King) Cooper

Birth Certificates for Annie Louisa Harbour Cooper Feb 1872 Bermondsey; Alice Amelia Cooper 5 Nov 1877 Bermondsey; Alfred Arthur  Cooper 13 Feb. 1879 Bermondsey; Frederick William Harbour Cooper and Mary (King) Cooper

As you can see WFHC name was transposed to FWHC on some certificates.

Richard Harbour, age 72, Baker, d 19 June 1885, Battle, Sussex., Mary Harbour Widow present at death.

William Frederick Harbour-Cooper, age 51, Tanner, d. 23 Oct. 1891, Bermondsey. Son of Richard Harbour.

Mary (Smith) Harbour , age 81, widow of master baker Richard Harbour, d. 22 Jan. 1891 Tunbridge Wells with her dau Emma Harbour in attendance.

1881 Census William F. H Harbour Cooper, his wife Mary, and children: Annie, George, Rose, Alice, and Arthur are listed as Harbour. Census left off the Cooper although all the children went by Harbour Cooper or just Cooper.

Possibly Richard Harbour had children by an Amelia Cooper but never married her, thus Amelia Harbour Cooper and William F. Harbour Cooper came about? The Cooper won't have come from Richard because his last two children are Harbour only.  Does this sound logical?

[avm228]

1881 Census William F. H Harbour Cooper, his wife Mary, and children: Annie, George, Rose, Alice, and Arthur are listed as Harbour. Census left off the Cooper although all the children went by Harbour Cooper or just Cooper.

Wow - that 1881 census for "Wm" and "My" HARBOUR is hard to find! RG11/561/24/42.

[avm228]

In the 1891 census the family is COOPER: RG12/375/16/23.