James Begley/Biglay/Bigley - Poorhouse Application

[jeanieb]

Hello Everyone:
 
I believe I posted some time ago about a James Begley born 23 Jun 1837 he was one of my brick walls but I think I just might have found out what happen to him but need a little more info to confirm and hope that someone here might have some suggestions.
 
I found a certificate of death for a James Biglay this surname is often spelled incorrectly; the date of death for this James Begley is 23 Mary 1869 Springburn, Scotland it’s a little difficult to make out the writing on the certificate isn’t really that clear but the parent’s names appear to match the James Begley I’m searching for is the son of John Begley and Isabella McArthur the name of the mother on the certificate I found appears to be Isabella Biglay nee McArthur and the father appears to be Jack Biglay as my cousin pointed out men named John are called Jack so I just might have found my James Begley but I want to be sure.  The last info we found on him indicated that he was a soldier and it also confirms this on the certificate, his age was 31 and if I’m reading it correctly he died in the Barnhill Poorhouse. 
 
Now for my question is there a way to confirm the date of birth of this James if I could confirm the date of birth and it is the same as we have than I know I got the right person.  Is there a way I could get a copy of the poor house application and maybe that might confirm a date of birth for him?

I hope to get a copy of his Poorhouse application that might provide some information about him that could help me prove that he is indeed the person I was looking for even the mention of a family member in that application might help confirm it.  I'm in Canada, Toronto so going to the Mitchell Library isn't an option unfortunately I would love to go to Scotland.  I wonder if anyone knows if the staff at the Mitchell library does searches for people and if there is a cost associated with that search.  I’ve searched their web page and can’t seem to find this info there.  Maybe I could do a exchange with someone they could search for me in Scotland and I could search for them in Canada.  Any information would be appreciated. 
 
Thank you,
 
Donna

 

[MonicaL]

Hi Donna

In reality, your key verification are the names showing on his death cert. for his parents which seem to match what you have for  his family.

I think I can see a number of trees for this family on Ancestry. Are one of these yours? Not sure about the date of birth you have for James. From what I can see, this looks to be the Roman Catholic christening date, not his birth date. One other thing that might be worth looking at. The transcript for the 1841 census for the family shows James and brother as aged 4, ie twins. Have you looked at the original to confirm?

The 1851 census shows James as the elder with a birth year c. 1834 - as transcribed (messy in places):

John Belty 45, labourer b. Queely, Ireland
Isabela Begly 38 b. Fort William, Inverness
James Begly 17, unemployed, b. Pollockshaws, Renfrewshire
Alexander Begly 15 b. Pollockshaws, Renfrewshire
John Begly 12 b. Neilston, Renfrewshire
Archibald Begly 8 b. Barony, Lanarkshire

Address: 75 Macalpine Street, Glasgow

Monica 

[jeanieb]

Hi Moncia:

We actually have his certificate of birth from Scotland People it shows 23 June 1837 as the twins date of birth it shows James and Alexander both confirming their parents names and next to the date of birth the date of Baptism which was the 3 July 1837 its a very poor copy but you can make out their names and dates. 

I do think that this is indeed the James Begley I am looking for however I would still like to see the poorhouse application to see if it provides any other info such as why he didn't come to Canada with the other 2 brothers.  The youngest of the Begley boys Archibald died in 1841 so we know what happen to the other threee but not James.  Someone has actually offered to lookup the application for me so I'm crossing my fingers that it will provide a little info.

That census that you found is indeed the same family it confused me at first since one said they were twins and than this census has different ages.

Thanks so much Monica for your reply.

Donna 

[MonicaL]

Hi Donna

That is great that someone will try and look up his poor relief application details. Hope you find what is needed 

Census ages alone can be unreliable, with people adding or taking away a year or so. However, I also see that father John died in 1855. For a parent who has died that year, 1855 death certs show the ages in 1855 of any children and the death year/age of those children who have died. James and Alexander clearly show as twins on the death cert of their father John, both aged 17 at the time of his death. The ages showing therefore on that 1851 census must be an error, either in the transcription or the way they were written down.

I see there is also a reference to mother Isabella McArthur/Begley having died at Barnhill Poorhouse in January 1869, with a corresponding death entry showing in 1869 in Springburn. Maybe a double check on the poor relief records for both Isabella and son James would give you full confirmation of their details.

Did John and Alexander both head off to Canada? It was youngest brother Neil who died as a baby aged 3 months. Other brother Archibald still shows as alive (aged 13) when his father John died in 1855.

Monica

[MonicaL]

This looks to be Isabella and son Archibald in 1861:

Isabelle Begley 45 b. Klmerneven (spl), Inverness
Archibald Begley 18, dock labourer
Sarah Mctavish 24, cousin, b. Kilmermvan, Inverness
Jessie Leyuson 17, visitor b. Kilmermvan, Inverness

Address: 15 Mc Alpine St, Glasgow

Monica

[MonicaL]

Likely death of son Archibald also in 1869 (three in one family within months it would seem). The death shows on SP in High Church Glasgow, Archibald BEGLIE b. 1842.

Monica

[jeanieb]

Hello Monica:

You are correct again haha Archibald did die in 1869 I was looking at the wrong Archibald on my tree, Archibald died 4 May 1869, Isabella 18 Jan 1869 and the James I found 23 Mar 1869, young Archibald went last not first.  Neil was an infant just 3 months, now Neil and John Sr. the father are buried at Dalbeth Cemetery but the other 3 are not as far as I can see.  Alexander and John are the two other brother, Alexander the twin John my connection to this group.  I believe if I'm correct they showed up on the 1871 Canadian Census but I need to check my notes, I know that John got married in England in 1863 it took me forevery to find him since I never thought of checking England.  I guess Alexander and John decided they needed to leave the UK since they had so much lost to start over.  You've been a big help Monica since you pointed out to me that all 3 died the same year that may be another reason why the other two came to Canada. 

Thanks again Monica

Donna

[jeanieb]

Hello:  Just posted an update of info.  I received a clearer copy of the certificate of death for James Biglay and it clearly shows his fathers name as Joseph its possible that his father could have been John Joseph the informant was John MacKay from the poorhouse so he wouldn't be expected to know the info, I'm still hoping that this is the same James's I'm looking for.

Thanks

Donna 

[MonicaL]

Hopefully if any info is to be found on his poor relief records, this will let you confirm details better. The mother's details were correct weren't they (Isabella McArthur)?

It always a problem where an informant to a death makes mistakes on parents' names. Not surprising if the informant was not family that a mistake could have been made.

Hopefully there is still more info to be found 

Monica