Charles Howard JOHNSON

[sparrett]

Got the death cert. It arrived yesterday. It must be him!!  VAL

Val,
Only you can see the death certificate you refer to.
I suppose it is the certificate for the man who died in 1957.

The story holds together ok to the point of  the supposed immigration and marriage to DORIS.

You have not really furnished any evidence that your grandfather immigrated to Australia in the 1940's.

As we have established, there are two men named CHARLES HOWARD JOHNSON.

One was born in Australia and the other --- the  soldier was born in LONDON.

It would be helpful if you told us what is written on the death certificate.

So far there is nothing I can see in this thread to persuade me that the man who married DORIS was your grandfather.


Sue

[Dundee]

Hi Val,

It was Charles Herbert JOHNSON who was born in Sydney in 1884, son of Charles H or N JOHNSON and Harriet Ellen MARTIN.  He committed suicide in 1919 and from death notices appears to have been unmarried.  Sisters May, Ellen and Gladys - married surnames REID, BOURK, (O')FLAHERTY.  Harriet died in 1924, and Charles in 1938.

The Howard middle name is only recorded in the 1943 marriage and the 1957 death, which appear to be YOUR Charles.

As for Charles Howard JOHNSON'S son, it will be quite difficult I would imagine with such a common name.  I wonder if he was also given the middle name of Howard?  I had a look for *** on the nominal roll for Vietnam as he would have been of an age to serve, but none born NSW at the correct time.  There are lots of internet sites for finding missing people, so maybe post on a few of those.  (Everyone googles themselves at some stage!) If the death cert indicates that his wife was still alive then maybe you can have the few notices from the Sydney Morning Herald checked as well (the link was given earlier), keeping in mind that she may have remarried.  Letters to local newspapers can also be very successful.  The marriage cert will give details of the bride, and maybe it would be easier to chase up living members of her family, as the name is a little more unusual.

Good luck with your search 

Debra

[Valgenie]

Hello Sparrett and Dundee,

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I am sorry if I caused anyone to look for something I already knew.   My real Q was, how do I find *****?  living son of CHJ?
Re: The Death Cert. the informant has named CHJ's mother, which is correct.  And also his father and his profession, also correct. 
I am indebted to all of you for your help. The death notice in the paper told us nothing, I guess there was no obit. 
Think I might have to hire a Professional Researcher to find my uncle.
Thank you, everyone 

[judb]

Death notices such as those on the Ryerson index are paid advertisements usually inserted by family so the death notice mentioned by Ryerson would probably give the name/s of any offspring.  What you see on the on-line Ryerson index is just the indexed names - there would be more in the actual paper.  Sounds as though you may only have looked at the index.

I can do a look-up for you but proabably won't be at the National Library till late next week, if I get there at all - maybe not till the week after.

You can request Ryerson to do a lookup for you - sometimes they are really quick, sometimes slower as it is done by volunteers. 

Cheers, Judith

[Valgenie]

Thank you, Judith

             That would be very helpful.   

[sparrett]

Hi Val, :

Judith's kind offer may bring some details to light

 My real Q was, how do I find *****?  living son of CHJ?
Re: The Death Cert. the informant has named CHJ's mother, which is correct.  And also his father and his profession, also correct.

A couple of comments here, Val.
We all understand that your query was to search out the son.

In order to make sure your informaton is accurate, it has been neccesary to carefully go over with you the information you have. It occurs commonly in our work that assumptions are made and inaccuracies proliferate from them.  It may seem like backtracking to you, but thorough researchers will always question and validate.

On the death certificate you have,
Who was the informant?
What is the conjugal staus?
How many children living /dead are listed?
What is the full name of the parents of deceased?

Sue

[judb]

Unfortunately there is little more information in the Death Notice

Sydney Morning Herald, 12 March 1957 - Death notices:
JOHNSON, Charles Howard-
March 11, 1957 of 146 Crown St, East Sydney, beloved husband of Doris, and dear father of Peter.  At Rest.

There is no funeral notice; no further notices on the next two days.

146 Crown St can be seen on Googlemap - susburb is now called Darlinghurst.  It appears to be a block of flats but looks as though it could have been there in 1957. (Click on the red marker to get a street view)

Judith

[sparrett]

Hi,
Found this on a pay to view shipping website.  I cannot see more than I have put here, but others may think it is worth following up.

CAPE Adelaide Janet. born 1908.Female.
departed 1923London to Australia [Sydney]
                                 
CAPE,Doris born 1910.Female
 departed 1923.London to Australia[Sydney]
               
CAPE, Jack William born 1922 Male
departed 1923.London to Australia[Sydney]

   
CAPE, Janet Adelaide    born 1881   Female
departed 1923.London to Australia[Sydney]

It is possible to see the marriages of ADELAIDE JANET and JACK WILLIAM on NSW BMD

Reg. 2789 In 1943 MCCAULEY, NOEL JAMES to CAPE, ADELIADE JANET at GLEBE

Reg. 752 In 1944 CAPE, JACK WILLIAM toTREMBATH JOSEPHINE SAUNDERS at SYDNEY

Also the death of the other

Reg. 22419 In 1965 CAPE, JANET ADELAIDE father WILLIAM JOSEPH mother UNKNOWN  at LIVERPOOL

Some deaths notices from Ryerson

McCAULEY   Janet Adelaide. 27AUG1980 Death aged 72 late of Cabramatta. PAPER-   Sydney Morning Herald

CAPE Jack William.29JAN1999 aged 76 late of RiverwoodPAPER Daily Telegraph (Sydney)

It is hard to know if these people are DORIS and her family, but it may be worth investigating as  a way to establish DORIS's parents and extentd family to find the son P***

Sue     

[Valgenie]

Hello Sue and Judith,


Re: Death Cert. Informant: Doris Johnson
                         Conjugal Status: Married
                         Living Issue: P****   aged 13
                         Parents: Charles Howard Johnson (Publican) and Harriet Palmer

                         Last two exactly match our CHJ

FYI:                   Over the years I have traced all CHJ's brothers and sisters. (7 in total) 
                         They were all deceased by the time I "found" them. The offspring knew nothing.
                         CHJ's first wife (my mother's mother) died young and did not tell my mother
                         anything about her father other than he was at sea.
                         
                         When he settled in Australia, he had two living children in the UK, 1 dead.

                         My mother's life ambition has been to find her father.

                         The info. re. The Cape Family is incredible. If this is the right Doris, then she
                         would have been about 34 when she had P****.

                         From here in the UK, I thank you both sincerely

                         V.