The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)

[steve_gus]

Congrats on finding the grave location, thats great work.

I come from the Mays Lane area of Barnet, and still have family there. Visit every 3rd week normally as im 70 or so miles north now.

I would like to find time though to look for Nats grave, though im not familiar with that area. Having moved from London 30 years ago, I still remember the mentality that a couple miles in London is like going on holiday I do 100 miles a day now just commuting.

There can be undergrowth thats a bit more than sticks an strimmers - hopefully its not like that..... my son and i went for a walk in a local gully a couple months back and when we fought our way through a dead end it was suprising how resilient a few bushes can be!

If there was a way of finding out from the cemetary where the grave is in the block by the grave number, we might at least have some chance of approaching the area, as it would be pretty limiting as to how much you could chop though on a wild goose chase.



Regarding where Dempsey street is, please find new london maps and a link to the 1840 map of london . Dempsey st is pretty much centre of the 1840 map. Ignore the 'pin' on the new map - it looks to me that Dempsey st would have been in the area bounded by smithy st, jubilee st, jamaica st, anf stepney way, today.

http://london1851.com/cross15.htm

[Siamese Girl]

That's great news Mongibello finding out where both Nats were buried - knowing where someone is buried always completes the story properly. I wonder if their undertaker was Mr Nodes? It's the right area.

Carole

[Aniseed]

Hello all, fascinating developments. I was wondering what a class 2 and a class 3 grave means. Is it to do with the depth?

As far as people being recorded on the census with different surnames, I have an ancestor whose surname was BRIMMELL who was totally unfindable on one of the censuses (I think it was the 1861, but I've forgotten now). I searched for one of the children with his date and place of birth and no surname, and found the family listed as BREWER, which is what was written on the original census form. I'm certain it was the right family as all the names, places and dates of birth tallied with what I knew, and even the father's slightly unusual occupation of Fellowship Porter was the same. Why they were listed as BREWER, I have absolutely no idea, but it can happen that people are listed with completely wrong surnames.

[nestagj]

Just thought I'd have a look at Dempsey Street, London on the 1911 to see if I could dip in and whether there were any relatives of Nathaniel's living there but unfortunately there were too many entries - don't have that many credits !

Maybe if someone has got a subscription ?

N

[Ruskie]

I'd love to know who was in Dempsey St in 1911 too nestagj. If anyone has a subscription to FindMyPast we'd be grateful if they could look it up - perhaps once Steven has received Nathaniel's death certificate which might give a full address? I really hope he was living with family.

I've also been on a mission to find Dempsey St. I'm sure Mongibello is correct as the layout of the streets in that area then and now point to something destructive occurring (eg fewer streets and inexplicable dead ends). I hope it is OK to post this from another forum where they are discussing Dempsey Street and someone has produced an excellent map showing where it used to be:
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4280

I have also located it both on Cross's 1861 map and Booth Poverty Map where it is classed as "pink" - "fairly comfortable, good ordinary earnings" (This is in 1898/99). So at least it seems that Nathaniel was living quite well in his old age.

Although finding Nathaniel's place of burial is a wonderful breakthrough, I think it's also a bit sad. 

I wonder if it would be possible to clean up the area? I'm sure Mongibello will give us a clearer picture after his visit. It's probabaly essential to ask for help from staff to find the location of the grave as Steve suggests. If we could find the plot and there is no stone, it would be nice if we could put some kind of marker there. 

Thanks Mongibello - we all really appreciate your efforts.

[Ruskie]

As far as people being recorded on the census with different surnames, I have an ancestor whose surname was BRIMMELL who was totally unfindable on one of the censuses  ....... Why they were listed as BREWER, I have absolutely no idea, but it can happen that people are listed with completely wrong surnames.

Yes, that's a mystery. However in the case of Nathaniel Bryan/Bryceson - all the members of the household (as far as we know) are incorrect - there is just someone with the first name of Nathaniel living there.

[ShaunJ]

Dempsey Street ran from 21 Charles Street to 51 Smith Street.

Occupants listed in 1910 PO Directory were:

3 Taylor Geo. Edwin, tailor ( yes Mr Taylor the tailor !)
13, Watkins John, carman
13a, Sedwell Wm & sons, wheelwrights
15 Battenbury Jn & sons farriers
London Council Schools

EDIT - the same occupants are listed in 1912

[nestagj]

Couldn't wait so went at it sideways - I'd already looked for Brycesons and there were none in the right area so I went back and double checked who his daughter married and it was Walter Stangroom (I hope I'm right here) - looked for them in 1901 (have A** sub) and guess where they were - 102 Dempsey Street !!!!

Had enough credits to check just one  in 1911 - looked for Stangroom again and there they were :

102 Dempsey Street

Walter James Stangroom  49 Carman
Sarah Maria                     52
Walter                            26 Carpenter
Edith Sarah                     18 Dressmaker
Florence Ethel                  15

Hurrah !  It makes sense doesn't it - if he's unwell the daughter takes him in !
N

[Ruskie]

Thanks for looking Shaun! 

Couldn't wait so went at it sideways - I'd already looked for Brycesons and there were none in the right area so I went back and double checked who his daughter married and it was Walter Stangroom (I hope I'm right here) - looked for them in 1901 (have A** sub) and guess where they were - 102 Dempsey Street !!!!

Had enough credits to check just one  in 1911 - looked for Stangroom again and there they were :

102 Dempsey Street

Walter James Stangroom  49 Carman
Sarah Maria                     52
Walter                            26 Carpenter
Edith Sarah                     18 Dressmaker
Florence Ethel                  15

Hurrah !  It makes sense doesn't it - if he's unwell the daughter takes him in !
N

Yea - that's them!

Yet another great find N!

Great work!!!!