Author Topic: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)  (Read 45966 times)

Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #72 on: Thursday 22 July 10 16:00 BST (UK) »
mab ,..... she is driving me NUTS!!!!

at the moment I am still trawling through baptisms;;

This is what I have already done for the Camden area:

Fitroy Chapel St Pancras
Percy Chapel St Pancras
St Saviour, St Pancras
St George The Martyr, Queen Square
and am on St George Bloomsbury
still have a few to go ................................. :-\

I am going up til the 1812 entries as she may have been baptised as a child.  ::) :-\

deb
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


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Offline Steven Bryceson

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #73 on: Thursday 22 July 10 16:53 BST (UK) »
Dear all,

It is worth considering that Ann was a member of the non-conformist Tottenham Court Rd Chapel in 1846 so may not have had a CofE baptism. I wonder how NB knew her - from chapel perhaps or did she work (as a chambermaid) for Granny Shepard) or live near others he knew? I onky scanned the rest of the diary yesterday, partly because I want it to unfold as it is with all of us on  a daily basis. I didn't see anything about Ann's marital status.

Peace,

Steven.

Offline Steven Bryceson

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #74 on: Thursday 22 July 10 17:18 BST (UK) »

Offline Steven Bryceson

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #75 on: Thursday 22 July 10 22:55 BST (UK) »
Dear all, In response to an earlier point, it is the Minutes of Guardians of St Marylebone, 28 April 1826, Accounts of Edward Biggs, Overseer, which make reference to cash paid apprehending Valentine Simmons, Joseph Jacobs and Nath. White for barstardy £1.11s.6d. Peace, Steven.


Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #76 on: Thursday 22 July 10 23:14 BST (UK) »
Hi Steven

I like the link you posted earlier.

Finding Ann Fox is like a finding a needle in a haystack ...although I Love her ...I need more patience in order to go through the baptisms. You had mentioned that she went to a non-conformist chapel ...could she have been baptised CofE and decided to go her own way or did you have to be brought up like that ...my history regarding this subject is spotty to say the least.  :-\

re: the Bastardy order .... were all 3 men apprehended for one child ...I see bastardy orders on NA all the time especially for Cornish people and have yet to see what you have ...this is new to me ... maybe I am being an ignoramus here ... ::)

deb

added ... just realised that Edward Biggs was doing a job of apprehending fathers of illegitimate children ...duh!
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #77 on: Thursday 22 July 10 23:28 BST (UK) »
Good morning/evening everyone.  :)

Dear all, In response to an earlier point, it is the Minutes of Guardians of St Marylebone, 28 April 1826, Accounts of Edward Biggs, Overseer, which make reference to cash paid apprehending Valentine Simmons, Joseph Jacobs and Nath. White for barstardy £1.11s.6d. Peace, Steven.

Thanks for this Steven (and for telling us that you don't know Ann's marital status  ;)).

Doesn't this look interesting? It would be well worth investigating. I have no knowledge or experience researching this kind of thing - does anyone have any ideas how to go about it? Are these the records that are held at Kew Steven?

I'm not sure I really understand what it is though:
Is this the accounts of Edward Biggs and how much it cost him to chase up these chaps to get money from them to pay for their illegitimate children? This is not the actual detail of the Bastardy Bond is it? If this is correct, then does anyone know how to go about looking for the Bastardy Bond or Bastardy Order.

I found this which seems to explain it quite well if, like me, you don't have much knowledge about this:

"A Bastardy Bond was the usual method by which the Parish Overseers ensured that illegitimate children did not have to be provided for out of the Parish Rates. The natural father might seal a Bond for a certain sums of money to be paid to the Churchwardens and Overseers of the Poor of the Parish, if he failed to provide for ‘the future Maintenance, Education, Nourishment and bringing up of the said Bastard Child….’ the Parish officials might take certain action. If the father was not very well off, or unreliable, another person might be included as a Guarantor.

Another method was for the Parish authorities to get a Bastardy Order, signed by two Justices of the Peace, ordering the unmarried father to pay a weekly fixed sum to the Overseers (not directly to the mother)."


How great would it be to find this?  ;D

(our posts just crossed Deb - I see we are thinking along the same lines. I did post a little about the Tottenham Court Chapel yesterday but the denomination wasn't specified though I guessed it was not CofE due to it being called a Chapel? Am I off the mark thinking this?)

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #78 on: Thursday 22 July 10 23:29 BST (UK) »
Out of interest William son of Hannah Lynn and Valentine Simmons, with workhouse and pauper given as place and occupation - although it isn't clear which of them  that refers to (just like Nathaniel's baptism)  was baptised Feb 24 1826 St Marylebone. I couldn't see any illegitimate births with Joseph Jacobs named as father.

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.

Online Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #79 on: Thursday 22 July 10 23:36 BST (UK) »
Out of interest William son of Hannah Lynn and Valentine Simmons, with workhouse and pauper given as place and occupation - although it isn't clear which of them  that refers to (just like Nathaniel's baptism)  was baptised Feb 24 1826 St Marylebone. I couldn't see any illegitimate births with Joseph Jacobs named as father.
Carole

Great find Carole.

Added: Great link Steven - this could be very useful. London parishes and churches are really confusing ...  :-\

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson (Part 4)
« Reply #80 on: Thursday 22 July 10 23:42 BST (UK) »
The money would have been paid to the overseer to track down the fathers. The idea was to get the woman to confess the name of the father before the baby was born - as Nat was born 5 June 1826 and the accounts date from April it must mean Nathaniel White was acknowledged as father before the birth - but if he was in the workhouse and a pauper there wouldn't be much point in trying to get him to pay  ???

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.