Family name: Cates.

[Tati]

Edward sr doesn't appear to have any siblings showing in 1871 and 1881 - mother Abigail, father James as you said - other than a 10 years older half sister in 1861.

Marriage details Edward Cates - Charlotte Fear

St Barnabas Marylebone 11 Jan 1885
Edward Cates, 24, Bachelor, Carman, 3 Carlisle Street, Father James Cates Carman
Charlotte Fear, 31, spinster, servant, 3 Carlisle Street, Father Richard Fear, occupation Drover?

witnesses Elizabeth Maguire and F.H. Deane

oops - yes sorry, just realised the unknown girl belonged to Frederick! 

[Tati]

The 1901 census shows Frederick (John) Cates and his wife Charlotte (Keziah) with a 1 year old daughter Charlotte C born Wood Green.

[Tati]

How do we like this Griffiths family? (FreeBMD shows than Annie married as Annie A Griffiths in 1910)

1901
RG13/485 53 44
Wandsworth, London
72 Wardley St
Oliver E Griffiths, head, 40, Stoker, b. Stratford
Ellen M, wife, 39, b. Battersea Surrey
Henry D E, son, 19, Wheelwright, b. Wandsworth
Florence, dau, 16, Laundress, b. do.
Annie A, dau, 11, b. do.
Ernest G, son, 14, Box Maker, b. do.
Albert, son, 9, b. do.
Arthur, son, 7, b. do.
Ethel, dau, 5, b. do.
Alice, dau, 2, b. do.
Rose, dau, 2 mo, b. do.

[Facepainter]

As we hit an Annie, an Ethel and an Arthur we like them a lot.

But then I have thought that before and crashed into a wall because families seem to use the same names again and again and again  (even for siblings!).

My ultimate James c1814 that we have found had a family with his first wife (ann lucking) before moving onto Abigail and having our edward.

Well, his first children - which only makes them half blood relations to my family)  were James (of course) ANOTHER Christopher a John (believe it or not this reappears for my father, a SECOND Christopher A susan, an Ann, a Sarah (my name) an Ann and a Phoebe (now a very famous Cates indeed).

So he had two christophers and then in his second marriage an Edward who then called his son christopher and he called HIS son Christopher.  And they used the same middle name at least twice!

It almost feels sometimes that it's designed to confuse.

[Tati]

I think we're all in the same boat - mine had a dreadful lack of imagination too 

Marriage 17 April 1881 St Anne's Wandsworth
Oliver Griffiths, 20, Bachelor, Engine Driver, St Anne's Wandsworth, father Thomas Griffiths, Silk Printer
Ellen Mary Bowyer, 20, Spinster, St Anne's Wandsworth, father Henry Boyer, Gardener
Witnesses Thomas Griffiths and Elizabeth Finlayson


Do you have the James Abigail marriage details yet, mentioning their fathers?

27 Nov 1859 Bethnal Green
James Cates, 45, Widower, Brewer's servant, Pearl Street, father John Cates Labourer
Abigail Blackman, full age, widow, Pearl Street, father Charles Thipthorp, Labourer
Witnesses George King and Jane Hanson

(Abigail Thipthorp married a William Blackman in 1845)

[Facepainter]

I have nothing on James and Abigail at all.  That's where it all stops for me.

I have James c1814, married to Ann Lucking c1816 then remarried to Abigail Blackman 1821.

That's as far back as I go - yours looks likely though doesn't it?

and a carman drove either horse drawn trams, or horse drawn delivery vehicles especially for the railroad apparently.

Every day's a schoolday.