GRO fees

[RJ_Paton]

If people were to now start returning certificates they have ordered using the correct details they have found on FreeBMD etc., and demanding a refund under "sale of goods act" then the next step the GRO would in all probability make would be to stop this service altogether and then where would we be.

This was one of the possible scenarios I highlighted in a previous post - The point raised by the original poster is an interesting one and one which could have wide ranging repercussions for the Genealogy world if it proves to be correct. (Just as it did with the retail traders)

We could speculate for ever and a day regarding this and I believe that the definitive answer lies with Trading Standards.

[stanmapstone]

Stan
You stated in one of your replies that the death must be registered in the area/district it occurrred in.
Is this a more recent (post 1950's) law.
My g/grandfather died in Reigate, Surrey, but his daughter (my gran) registered his birth in Westminster (this was in the 1940's).
Also my mum died in Southwark, but I had to go to Lambeth to register her death, I found this very odd.  This was in the mid 1990's

The 1836 Act
XIX. And be it enacted, That the Father or Mother of any Child born, or the Occupier of every House or Tenement in England in which any Birth or Death shall happen, after the said First day of March, may, within Forty-two Days next after the Day of such Birth or within Five Days after the Day of such Death respectively, give Notice of such Birth or Death to the Registrar of the District;
 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f3/   

The 1874 Act
9. The death of every person dying in England after the commencement of this Act, and cause of such death, shall be registered by the registrar in the manner directed by the  Births and Deaths Registration Acts, 1836 to 1874.
14. It shall be the duty of the registrar to inform himself carefully of every death which happens within his sub-district.
 http://www.rootschat.com/links/0967/   
Stan

[Jebber]

I had the unfortunate task of registering my husband's death last  year. This is taken from the booklet given to me by the registrar.

Jebber

[Guy Etchells]

There is no doubt in my mind the GRO are exempt from the DSR as they they have a statutory duty to supply certificates.

However they still have to ensure that any goods or services they supply are fit for purpose.
As long as you have stated checking points i.e. father's name Joe or Born in London etc. rather than simply a reference number. You are entitled to a full refund if the certificate does not match.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 puts it this way-

"13.     Sale by description
(1)      Where there is a contract for the sale of goods by description, there is an implied term that the goods will correspond with the description.

14.     Implied terms about quality or fitness
(2)      Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.
(2A)   For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

34.     Buyer's right of examining the goods
Unless otherwise agreed, when the seller tenders delivery of goods to the buyer, he is bound on request to afford the buyer a reasonable opportunity of examining the goods for the purpose of ascertaining whether they are in conformity with the contract and, in the case of a contract for sale by sample, of comparing the bulk with the sample."
Cheers
Guy

[stanmapstone]

I had the unfortunate task of registering my husband's death last  year. This is taken from the booklet given to me by the registrar.

Jebber

This is the same procedure for registering a birth if you have moved out of the area before registering it. However the birth and death are still registered in the district in which they took place.

This has been allowed for births since the 1874 Act
Any person required by this Act to give information con­cerning a birth, who removes before such birth is registered out of the sub-district in which such birth has taken place, may, within three months after such birth, give the information by making and signing in the presence of the registrar of the sub-district in which he resides  a declaration in writing of the particulars required to be registered concerning such birth; and such registrar ­on payment of the appointed fee shall receive and attest the declaration and send the same to the registrar of the sub-district in which the birth took place


Stan

[MuttleyS]

Having given a great deal of thought to the matter of whether the  DSRs apply to the GRO and also speaking to Trading Standards whose reply was:-

"The Distance Selling Regulations only apply to commercial transactions. Therefore, if the GRO are providing a statutory service (which they probably are) the cancellation rights do not apply.  Have you contacted the GRO to ask for an explanation?"

I am even more confused!

Helpfully (not) Trading Standards talk about "...  if the GRO are providing a statutory service" and "...(which they probably are).."

So obviously they are as confused as I am.

Actually Plummiegirl when you say

"If people were to now start returning certificates ......... then the next step the GRO would .... be to stop this service altogether..."     you are wrong.

It is a Statutory Service which means they have a Statutory obligation to do it some way or other.

I guess in reality they would just put the price up.

It just seems to me to be very unfair as there must be thousands of people buying thousands of certificates they do not want.

Not only is it a waste of their money, it is a waste of the GRO's time and the earth's resources.


In fact, as Falkyrn said, it comes down to the meaning of 'Statutory Function'.

In truth, what is actually happening here is that the GRO are primarily providing a Statutory Function for various legal purposes.

BUT, in addition, they are running a commercial enterprise providing family history enthusiasts with information. As far as I know this is by far and away the major part of their work. So much so that they have recently had to change their pricing structure.

I think the primary function should be exempt from the DSR but, this secondary commercial function should not be exempt. They should not be able to use this blanket exemption to cover all of their business, both statutory and commercial.

It would probably need to be tested in a court to get a clear decision and as has been said would probably backfire with an unreasonable increase in charges.

Who ever said the world was fair??

[coombs]

I have just sent off for 1 of 2 possible births of my 3xgreat auntys son in 1872. I have taken a gamble and if it is not the right one and likely the other one I cannot expect a refund. It is a gamble in this genealogy game. If it is wrong then I shall have to send off for the other one.

[dbath]

As you noted, MuttleyS, no organization is going to conduct business that costs them money.  If they are required to return money to people, the GRO will just increase the costs of business.  In fact, they may raise the costs to extreme rates in order to keep people from ordering.  While I definitely understand the frustration of getting a certificate you did not want, I am not certain that the fight can be won.  Either we accept what we are provided or we will see costs rise through the roof.

[MuttleyS]

I have just sent off for 1 of 2 possible births of my 3xgreat auntys son in 1872. I have taken a gamble and if it is not the right one and likely the other one I cannot expect a refund. It is a gamble in this genealogy game. If it is wrong then I shall have to send off for the other one.

I'd be interested to know if you would feel the same if you paid for a holiday that didn't turn out to be as you expected, maybe next to a building site, dirty linen or a toilet that didn't work; or bought a house that turned out to be next to very noisy neighbours.

If it is wrong you, "Just go and buy another one".

Just a gamble so you live with it do you?

Interesting philosophy on life!