GRO fees

[RJ_Paton]

I think the primary function should be exempt from the DSR but, this secondary commercial function should not be exempt. They should not be able to use this blanket exemption to cover all of their business, both statutory and commercial.

I think the answer can be found in the FAQ's on the GRO site and is basically a byline in answer to another question " By law[/u] (my emphasis) the information supplied must be in the form of a certificate ...".
If therefore in providing a certificate for whatever purpose by law the GRO are required to provide it in the form of a certificate then that surely must fall under a Statutory Function ?

So anyone care to stick their head over the parapet and try a Test Case ?  ...... (my money would be on you losing)

[coombs]

I have just sent off for 1 of 2 possible births of my 3xgreat auntys son in 1872. I have taken a gamble and if it is not the right one and likely the other one I cannot expect a refund. It is a gamble in this genealogy game. If it is wrong then I shall have to send off for the other one.

I'd be interested to know if you would feel the same if you paid for a holiday that didn't turn out to be as you expected, maybe next to a building site, dirty linen or a toilet that didn't work; or bought a house that turned out to be next to very noisy neighbours.

If it is wrong you, "Just go and buy another one".

Just a gamble so you live with it do you?

Interesting philosophy on life!

Whoa there. Bit of an exaggeration. A few GRO certs are hardly a great holiday or a new home as I would do lots of research before choosing a dream holiday or home. If there are two Thomas Wilson's registered in the same quarter in the same year in the same district then you have to take a gamble with one at first. It may be the right one. If not then it is not the end of the world as you can order the other one. Simple.

[nigelp]

I think the answer can be found in the FAQ's on the GRO site and is basically a byline in answer to another question " By law[/u] (my emphasis) the information supplied must be in the form of a certificate ...".
If therefore in providing a certificate for whatever purpose by law the GRO are required to provide it in the form of a certificate then that surely must fall under a Statutory Function ?

I think the GRO's interpretation of the law is questionable. The legislation requires them to provide a certificate upon request and which is what they are doing. However, there doesn't appear to be anything in the legislation preventing them making the information available in some other form. They have simply decided not to make information available in any other way and there is no legal obligation for them to do so.

The provision of a certificate is a statutory requirement and in this respect the GRO is providing a statutory service.

Nigel

[MuttleyS]

Whoa there. Bit of an exaggeration. A few GRO certs are hardly a great holiday or a new home as I would do lots of research before choosing a dream holiday or home. If there are two Thomas Wilson's registered in the same quarter in the same year in the same district then you have to take a gamble with one at first. It may be the right one. If not then it is not the end of the world as you can order the other one. Simple.

Yes I agree but look at it this way:- over the years you could easily buy 2 or 3 hundred certificates. (3 Births Deaths Marriages for each person - that is only 63 people). If only 10% are wrong (you could go wrong more than once on a person) that would be 20 or 30 wasted certificates. At £9-25 each that could be £277.50.

That might not be a lot of money to you but to a pensioner like me.........(don't get out the violins just yet)

Also, if lots of enthusiasts are doing roughly the same then the GRO are making tens of thousands a year supplying useless documents.

As I said earlier, not only is it a waste of everybody's money it is also a waste of the GROs time and the world resources.

Oh, and believe me, it doesn't matter how much research you do beforehand, buying a house or a holiday can go very wrong for unforseen circumstances.

There HAS to be some consumer protection.

[aghadowey]

And if you looked a telephone number up in the directory and dialed the wrong number would you expect BT to give you a refund 

[Sloe Gin]

You shouldn't have to order two or three certificates just to get the one you want.

You can increase your chances of getting the right one by not quoting a reference number, and giving the year and quarter (if known) plus any information you have which might be expected to appear on the certificate.  This is, of course, a bit of an unknown quantity with death certificates, but I have found local register offices respond very well in these cases.  I write a letter and put down everything I know - past occupations, addresses, names of likely informants .... any of these may be a clue to identifying the right one. 

Don't see why this approach shouldn't work with the GRO if the local office isn't an option.  There is no longer a charge for checking.  A letter gives you a lot more freedom than an online form, and will only cost a stamp and a day or two in time.

[MuttleyS]

And if you looked a telephone number up in the directory and dialed the wrong number would you expect BT to give you a refund 

Well, just think about it. Try and work out the same situation rather than an idea that is way off the point.

IF BT's telephone directory gave me a choice of 2 or 3 numbers for someone and did not give me enough information to work out EXACTLY which was the right one then YES I would expect them to give me my money back.

Anyway, the Distant Selling Regulations are about buying a product 'unseen', online and the consumer protection that even the government realises they have to give.

Your comment about using the 'phone is a complete red herring I'm afraid.

[Guy Etchells]

I think the primary function should be exempt from the DSR but, this secondary commercial function should not be exempt. They should not be able to use this blanket exemption to cover all of their business, both statutory and commercial.

I think the answer can be found in the FAQ's on the GRO site and is basically a byline in answer to another question " By law[/u] (my emphasis) the information supplied must be in the form of a certificate ...".
If therefore in providing a certificate for whatever purpose by law the GRO are required to provide it in the form of a certificate then that surely must fall under a Statutory Function ?

So anyone care to stick their head over the parapet and try a Test Case ?  ...... (my money would be on you losing)

There is no need they are governed by the Sale of Goods Act.
Which is why the were forced to withdraw the "checking service".
That was a dubious practice to enable a percentage of the fee to be withheld, their lawyers have now agreed that that was unlawful.

They still have to ensure they provide what they are asked to provide.
While ever people try to push the Distance Selling Regulations they are happy as they come under an exemption.
Instead use the Sale of Goods Act under the sections I noted in an earlier post.
Cheers
Guy

[coombs]

Whoa there. Bit of an exaggeration. A few GRO certs are hardly a great holiday or a new home as I would do lots of research before choosing a dream holiday or home. If there are two Thomas Wilson's registered in the same quarter in the same year in the same district then you have to take a gamble with one at first. It may be the right one. If not then it is not the end of the world as you can order the other one. Simple.

Yes I agree but look at it this way:- over the years you could easily buy 2 or 3 hundred certificates. (3 Births Deaths Marriages for each person - that is only 63 people). If only 10% are wrong (you could go wrong more than once on a person) that would be 20 or 30 wasted certificates. At £9-25 each that could be £277.50.

That might not be a lot of money to you but to a pensioner like me.........(don't get out the violins just yet)

Also, if lots of enthusiasts are doing roughly the same then the GRO are making tens of thousands a year supplying useless documents.

As I said earlier, not only is it a waste of everybody's money it is also a waste of the GROs time and the world resources.

Oh, and believe me, it doesn't matter how much research you do beforehand, buying a house or a holiday can go very wrong for unforseen circumstances.

There HAS to be some consumer protection.

Yes I see what you mean there but I think a lot of companies want more money and I think the GRO also rely on people buying wrong certs as it generates them revenue. But I suppose if we returned the cert they could give us at least a partial refund.