COTTIER/GRAVES/WATTLEWORTH

[apple123]

Can anyone please help me resolve the parentage of the following grandsons of John & Catherine COTTIER:

John GRAVES born 1847 Peel
Thomas GRAVES born 1849 Peel
Thomas WATTLEWORTH born 1850 Peel

I have them on the 1851 and 1861 census with their grandparents.

Thank You

Claire

[CaroleW]

Sorry - reply deleted - wrong info

[Frances_mnb]

is http://www.manxnotebook.com/famhist/families/graves.htm any use ?

[apple123]

Thank you for the link however I can't place any of the grandsons of the family tree shown. They are quite a mystery at the moment !

[Frances_mnb]

they are illeg c/o of Christian - eg in 1850 presentments for Fornication under German - Christian Cottier - affiliated on Thomas Wattleworth formerly Peel now Off Island

[apple123]

I think I've found all three Christenings on the Family Search Pilot website under Cottier:

John Cottier - Christened 7 May 1847 Kirk German. Mother Mary Ann Cottier
Thomas Cottier - Christened 23 Feb 1849 Kirk German. Mother Mary Cottier
Thomas Cottier - Christened 19 April 1850 Kirk German. Mother Christian Cottier.

Does anyone have access to the Christening records of these three boys from Peel who could look them up for me please?

Thank you

Claire

[Voirrey M]

All   three  are  extracted  from  church  records  &   there  is  unlikely  to  be  any  further onfo .  except --  illegitimate  son--- .I  will  look  for  you  on my next  visit  to  the  MNH  library.  By  coincidence  I   spent  some  hours  at  Kirk  German  C of  E  cathedral  today  at  the  Flower Festival for  Manx  National  Week.It   is  the  parish  church.
As   Frances  has  explained   Christian  was  sent  to  the  Church  Court  to  ensure  the  partner   supported  her  child  financially. If necessary  the  mother  would  swear  an  oath  on  the  Bible  about
her  claim. Manx children  usually   used  the  natural  father's  surname  unless  mothers  remarried  &
perhaps  the  stepfathers  names  might  be  used.

[Frances_mnb]

the presentments are on paper - not transcribed nor indexed - when I get bored I request another year's bundle (two courts per year) and spend an hour or more noting names - about 15 years or so post 1800 are on my CD - look at www.manxnotebook.com for what years I've done. Actually Christain had nothing to do with it - she was reported by church wardens - the midwives usually had to report name of father - side effect is that the father unless he jumped Island was responsible for half maintenance of child (no children's names are given in the presentments which might well be 2 years post partum). In a very few cases (normally if father was well off or if she had been forced (eg son of an employer) there might be a petition from the mother giving the expenses incurred.

[apple123]

Voirrey,

Thank you for offering to look for the three Christenings, I appreciate your help. I wasn't aware that Illegitimate children used their fathers surname in the Isle of Man. My experience for England is that they use their mothers surname. Christian died in 1856 and her sister Mary Ann in 1860.

Claire