Annie MENHAM

[JeannieR]

Alp...

The Herbert John Hill, I was referring to, is I think your missing Arthur's brother, born 1837, and not your grandfather......

But I think we have hit the nail on the head,  so to speak. It would follow that your great grand parents, might name a child after him....

There is no sign of your Arthur in 1911 either.

Annie and Julia, are living at Ventnor Terrace , Doxey, Staffordshire. Annie states she has :Private Means" Perhaps a Service Pension ?

I cannot find a death abroad, for your Arthur.
He is certainly a mystery man

Jeannie

[JeannieR]

final observation - I cant see an obvious candidate +/- 2 years of age born Worcester in 1881 or 1891 (altho its suprising the number of 'new' Arthurs that appear linked with Worcester).

But I wonder who Arthur Hill,  the MARRIED Boarder is in Brighton in 1901 ?

RG13; Piece: 925; Folio: 75; Page: 36 Brighton, 47, Elm Grove

He was born 'Worcester', aged 63 (spot on) and an 'Inspector of Concrete for Tramways'

Good points JeannieR 


Added: altho on looking further, might be the same chap in 1881 RG11; Piece: 246; Folio: 127; Page: 36 Islington, married to a Patience. He's a Supt Manager Lon St Tram Coy .....

By 1891 he has remarried to an Ellen (neé Enefer) from Danbury, Essex (same family, as oldest son born USA, New Jersey.

They are in RG12; Piece: 836; Folio 34; Page 9 Broadwater, Worthing, Sussex (not far from Brighton)

Arthur now states RETIRED MAJOR - HM Siramel ?? - Manager of a Public Company.

I

[Mort29]

waiting with bated breath   

[JeannieR]

Hi....

I must learn to cut and paste !!

I think our Arthur was a naughty man, and that the Arthur we found "married" to Patience and Ellen Ensfer is the man that Alp is searching for.......There is no record of a marriage for either.....

Annie MENHAM and Arthur Hill had children ......

Julia, who is with her mother on all census
Arthur DEVEREAUX Hill registered 1869 Plympton St Mary, Devon
Herbert John Hill......

The retired Major , also had the middle initial D which I suspect is for Devereaux

He and Ellen , have a son, with a indecipherable name, but on the 1911 census, it is Arthur DEVEREAUX Hill. His birth was registered at Lewes / September qtr 1887 / vol 2b page 183

You found Arthur on his own in 1901, Ellen is a visitor, with the children Cyril , Vera 1893 and Winifred 1897...

The son who was born in New Jersey 1879, Bertie, I think is Herbert again

Both Patience and Ellen, were many years younger than Arthur

Although he never married these girls (that I can see) it seems he deserted Annie, when he came out of the Services   What do you Think ?

1911 he states he and Ellen have been married 25 years, he is 73, and was born Worcester. Spot on with everything .They are still in Sussex

Jeannie

[Mort29]

Pretty much my thoughts, thats why I went that far beyond 1871 following him - but hadnt got as far as formulating the total theory: also wanted Alp to get 1876 Herbert's Birth papers to clock Arthur's job at that time.

The son who was born in New Jersey 1879, Bertie, I think is Herbert again

vaguely recall he's Arthur* or Albert in 1881 Islington, if the latter, Bertie would also fit.

* Just looked - he's Arthur H. If H is Herbert, then Bertie fits as you say.

He and Ellen , have a son, with a indecipherable name, .......................... His birth was registered at Lewes / September qtr 1887 / vol 2b page 183

yes, Barcombe is in Sussex, not Essex, so the 1891 Enumerator could have sent us on a merry dance.

Good work - esp on the latest census   


PS. It would be good to find him, his bro' and Father in 1841 !

I did find a John Hill marrying a Deveraux in Worcestershire - but twas in the early 18th C.

[P-Hill]

I have just joined this site after searching for more details of my Great Grandfather Major Arthur Hill, and found this site / post after adding the Devereaux tag.
I can confirm that the Major was in the Royal Marines, and to my knowledge (to date) had at least 3 “families”, his absence from public records would be, according to press cuttings (Sussex Obituary, paper unknown, Photostat) due to living in France for Six years, Japan for eleven, he had worked at one point as the Manager of London Street Tramways.

His parents were John & Elizabeth (nee Hardwick), John was an extremely successful solicitor, the couple had 4 children Arthur, Herbert John, Elizabeth, and Frances.

Herbert John married Harriet Jones, in the tree I have complied I have no other Herbert John, so would be interested to know if there was another in the family, the Major named 2 of his sons Arthur Devereaux, and is also know to have called himself Arthur Devereaux dropping the Hill altogether, probably to lose a trail.   
I have reason to believe that his first wife was in contact with the Major and knew of his “lifestyle” during his third marriage.
I would like to contact Alp, how do we do that?

[alp]

Hi P-Hill,
I was really pleased to read your posting re Annie Menham.  Annie was my ggrandmother.  One of her sons was Herbert John who was my grandfather.  His daughter Dorothy Kathleen was my mother.
Yes, I too, have 3 women in his life.  After Annie, there was Patricia who had one son to my knowledge, maybe, more.  He was born in Amerivca and was also Arthur.  He also had a lady called Ellen with whom he had 4 children.  You probably know all this.  One of Arthur and Annies other sons was Arthur Devereaux who was the grandfather of Graham Hill (racing driver).  I would love to know which line you were from.  If you are interested in seeing my family tree I can send you a personal message with more details.

[P-Hill]

Hi Alp
Great to hear from you, it was late when I responded, looking back at my records I can see Herbert, he must have been the youngest with Annie.

I have a faded copy of the article following the Major death in 1917, I will forward to you, and yes I would love to see your family tree.

I am from the Arthur (Major) and Ellen “line, my grandfather must have know about the Major’s lifestyle, also used traditional family “Hill Family” names, my father’s middle name was Herbert, and my uncle’s was Arthur, my aunt was named Patricia!

I had guessed about Graham Hill’s connection as Devereaux is an unusual name; funnily enough one of my middle names is Graham.

There is other information but not for placing on the site, how do we make contact.
Regards
Paul

[alp]

Hi Paul
Thanks for all that - I will send you a Personal Message.  Anne