Carmichael Glasgow

[debi1958]

Looking for Robert Finlay(Finley) Carmichael born Glasgow abt 1856. Married Hellen Fraser (Helen Fraser) 4th June 1880 Glasgow.  They left Scotland after this for Australia.  I believe Helens mothers name may have been Sydney. Any help in locating marriage or birth certificates would be greatly appreciated.  I believe Robert was a Fireman on Steamer vessel.
Debi

[CaroleW]

Have you checked Scotlands People as that is the only website holding the info you want - it's a paysite

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

[debi1958]

Thanks. Did subscribe to that site. The only Carmichael married on that date married a Helen Frizzle, so I am assuming that she changed her maiden name when registering the birth of her child to Frazer.  I am fairly sure this is the right Robert as he lists his mothers maiden name as Findlay. 

[CaroleW]

We need his fathers name and his mothers christian name to be able to find him prior to his marriage

You have only given his mothers maiden name

What were the full names of Helens parents

How old was Helen in 1880

If her mother was Agnes Spence - then Helen's birth is on the IGI

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bq/

[debi1958]

Information obtained on marriage certificate:
1880 marriage in the district of Anderston in the Burgh of Glasgow.
4th day of June at 59 Washington St, Glasgow according to the terms of the Church of Scotland
Robert Carmichael (Steamer Ship Stoker) Aged 24
Helen Frizzle (Domestic Servant) Aged 24
Both list their usual address as 59 Washington Street.

Grooms Father:  Robert Carmichael, Farm Labourer (deceased)
Grooms Mother: Helen Carmichael - Ms Findlay (deceased)
Brides Father: Andrew Frizzle, Farm Labourer,
Brides Mother:  Helen Frizzle - Ms Beckon (?) hard to read script.

The birth certificate Australian for their first born son (1886) was listed as parents Robert Findlay Carmichael (aged 30)and Helen Carmichael (29) ((Maiden name Frazer) Place of birth - both Scotland.

Further confusion 1881 census states they lived in 39 Washington St, but Helen is named as Ellen.  And both state as birthplace ireland. They lived with Samuel frizzle.

Pretty sure Robert came out on Steamer Archer in 1883 to Australia but no record of Helen.  Their second son born in Australia was named Sydney Villiers Carmichael. 

[aghadowey]

Andrew Frizzell m. Ellen Bacon- son James born 22 Apr.1870 Portrush (Co.Antrim) registration district-
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584963
May be more children listed on LDS site www.familysearch.org but it's down for maintenance this morning.
Ellen is the more common form of the name in Ireland while Helen seems to be used more in Scotland.

[CaroleW]

Also with parents Andrew Frizzell and Ellen Bacon

WILLIAM FRIZELL  Birth:  28 MAR 1868  Portrush Antrim
 
Male b 3.11.1865 - no christian name shown but entry is a submitted one

 

[aghadowey]

I.G.I lists male child born 3 Nov.1865 Bushmills district, Co.Antrim (page 451 in civil register) and the submitted entry for the same date for a son born at Portrush.
The marriage of Andrew and Ellen is also on I.G.I.-
1866 Co.Londonderry (submitted)
1867 Co.Antrim (submitted)
with Andrew born 1842 and Ellen 1846 (typical LDS formula using one event such as the marriage to assume the dates of birth- husband 4 years older than wife so not reliable information)   

Civil registration of Catholic marriages in Ireland started in 1864 with other marriages from 1845 but I haven't been able to find the marriage anywhere in Ireland yet.