IFHF records for Louth

[iplittle]

I've been able to trace a lot of my family roots within the Darver parish of Louth going back to 1789.

Can anyone here who uses these records tell me about how the parishes in the dropdown list correspond to the contemporary parishes of the day?

 I know there is a very useful set of links within the Irish Times ancestor section :

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/civilparish/index.cfm?fuseaction=GetMap&CityCounty=Louth

This shows the civil parishes of old and the towns and townlands within them.
What is confusing me is that I believe that, although the BRS/IFHF records list only RC parishes I am seeing birth records of notable CofI surnames, eg Brabazon, Fortescue, Garstin, etc in the listings.
Is there some conflation of parish designations or mis-filing. Or, is this more an indication of a social phenomenon where some members of families entered into mixed denomination marriages and brought some of their offspring up in R.C churches ?

It is of interest to me because I am trying to understand when in either 17th/18th/19th century my forebears may have converted to RC.

Can anyone shed light on the accuracy of these records in terms of the assigment of religious denomination ?
Someone else on the forum asked about Matthew Fortescue and , for example, his records on IHFH
suggest that in 1778 , a Matt Fortescue was born to Matthew Fortescue (senior) and was baptised in Haggardstown RC parish (I would assume this might be extrapolated back to Dromiskin CofI parish)
and in the field which specifies religious denomination it states : Roman Catholic.


Just using that as a point example would suggest that either that some of these late 18th century records were misfiled during the transcription/digitization process. Or perhaps, it was correct that the individual was raised and baptised into the RC religion (although I really somehow doubt this).
There are similar examples in Darver parish records as they are represented within the IFHF/BRS record data.

--Ian

[shanew147]

According to their sources the IFHF have not transcribed any non-Catholic records at the moment... so I cant see how there could be any mis-keying of CofI records as RC..

They do sometime use local or town names for the RC parishes rather than the official parish names. The National Library has an index of RC Records online which show the names and date of parishes which could be cross-checked against the IFHF Co. Louth source details. 

...... for example, his records on IHFH
suggest that in 1778 , a Matt Fortescue was born to Matthew Fortescue (senior) and was baptised in Haggardstown RC parish (I would assume this might be extrapolated back to Dromiskin CofI parish)
and in the field which specifies religious denomination it states : Roman Catholic.
....

I checked the available parish details for this area and records for Church of Ireland for the Civil parish of Dromiskeen only go back to 1791..

The CofI records for the civil/CofI parish of Haggardstown have been lost.

update : as a test I searched the 1901/1911 census for some of the surnames mentioned - Fortesque, Brabazon and Garstin ... and they have a mix of Church of Ireland, Catholic and other religions represented in the results.


Shane

[iplittle]

Shane,

Many thanks for your reply.
I have heard as you have that those records were exclusively from RC parishes.
Someone else who I am in communication with has also said that they have done a pretty remarkable job in transcribing and digitizing those records.

I see your point also with your sample of the 1901/1911 National census data and those surnames.
However, the dates where I am seeing what looks like possible inconsistencies are in the late 18th century.
I am trying to get an understanding of the demographics and I am not surprised by your findings in the 20th century census especially with the introduction of Ne Temere decree(s) , etc.
I am just wondering if there was a fairly stealthy amount of conversion of faith due to mixed marriages at that late 18th century in Louth. Another thing that crossed my mind would be that one spouse might have secretly baptised some selected offspring in the other faith in addition to their baptism in their nominal faith.
I am definitely in the realms of speculation here and really all I am calling for is more depth from anyone on the societal pressures, issues surrounding declared faith, etc at that period within a county such as Louth.

One of the patterns I am seeing in the data is a large number of those with traditionally CofI surnames appearing on RC baptismal records in the 1740-1800 period and those baptisms being recorded by and large in the more urban parishes (eg, Dundalk, Drogheda, Ardee and occasionally some of the peripheral parishes)


--Ian

[shanew147]

...
One of the patterns I am seeing in the data is a large number of those with traditionally CofI surnames appearing on RC baptismal records in the 1740-1800 period and those baptisms being recorded by and large in the more urban parishes (eg, Dundalk, Drogheda, Ardee and occasionally some of the peripheral parishes)
...

nothing very specific for you ... but some general points that may account for some skewing of the online results you you are seeing :

1. Co Louth is quite poorly represented in terms of surviving Church of Ireland records - a number are lost, and several others only have records going back to the mid to late 1800s.

2. Urban centres tend to have Catholic registers that go back further than the records available in rural areas.

I have no specific details on research in Co. Louth but have found examples among my own family back in the early 1800s in Dublin City of cases with 'Protestant' surnames appearing in Catholic records.

Under the Penal Laws there would have been some pressure to convert away from Catholicism. These were only repealed in the 1820s. 


Shane

[iplittle]

Shane,

Many thanks for your reply.

I have heard it suggested that mixed/denomination marriages were rare in Ireland until into the 19th century.

With emancipation and other repeals I understand that marriage across religious boundaries became less rare.
I agree that these birth events do look like they are definitely RC parish events and not a result of any transcription error, etc. I have also heard that , where mixed marriages this occur (before Ne Temere decree) that it was often custom that the males heirs were baptised in the protestant faith and the females in the RC faith.

--Ian