Gordon Kirkmichael Tomintoul

[Darwin]

So the name Ann for a daughter for Charles sits nowhere at present except connected to a first wife 
Monica

I think it's likely that he didn't marry Ann's mother (who might have been called - according to the death cert - a version of Jessie Cameron eg Jean, Jane, Janet). Ann called her first daughter Jean and her first son Charles (which makes sense of her parentage according to her death cert.) but I have yet to find a link to the name Ann as a reason for her own name.

[MonicaL]

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that Charles had a first short marriage before he married Elspet Stuart and, as such, Ann was a legitimate daughter of Charles...how to prove it though 

Have you made any enquires as to the state of Parish Registers for the period before 1816? There are often gaps in the registers which create black holes! Even though Charles Gordon was RC, as you have seen, his marriage to Elspet was noted on the OPRs, likely due to his position within the community.

Monica

[Darwin]

Update:

I just received a copy of the marriage entry in the Catholic records, which reads

James Fleming lawful son of James Fleming Keppach and of ... Cameron and Anne daughter of Charles Gordon St Bridget (Prot) having been regularly proclaimed three successive Sundays at the Parish Kirk and at the Catholic Chapel were married by me in the Chapel the tenth day of January eighteen hundred and thirty three years in the presence of Robert Mcgregor Delavorar and Robert Fleming Keppach and others
Donald Carmichael

(Carmichael was the Catholic priest)

So Anne was definitely the daughter of Charles Gordon of St Bridget (still don't know for certain who her mother was and it looks like Charles hadn't married her mother as she isn't described as his lawful daughter)

[MonicaL]

That's a great result for you Darwin. You have now the confirmation that Ann was the daughter of Charles  Still the question mark as to who was her mother. Agree with you regarding the missing word 'lawful' and the likelyhood that parents' weren't married.

Monica

[Darwin]

Hi Monica

Yes it was good to see the record and know who her father was. As for the mother - no idea really because the one recorded on her death cert doesn't seem to exist. I can find no record of a marriage for Charles Gordon pre his marriage to Elspet Stuart and the omission of the word "lawful" in Ann's marriage entry almost certainly means that Charles hadn't married her mother. However, Ann does seem to have lived at St Bridget's as that's where she was living when she married (according to the OPR entry).

Looking at the Status Animarum for Tomintoul in 1828, at St Bridget's, I noted that Charles isn't there (although his wife is there as Mrs Gordon, "wife of Chas" (that would be Elspet Stuart) and also a daughter (that would be Lillas). Charles' mother is also there at St Bridget's - named as Lillas McKardy

I suppose that Charles' absence from the Status Animarum isn't surprising as he is recorded as a protestant on Ann's marriage cert. but he was baptised a Catholic and both his parents (John Gordon of Glenbucket and Lillas McKardy) were recorded as Catholics.

Any ideas why he would be considered a Protestant?

[MonicaL]

Darwin, would be pure guesswork from me. From what you say, even with this family's RC roots, he may have attended Presbyterian services and not been close to the RC church and as such his name was not included on the Status Animarum, although the rest of his family were on this. Hard to be definitive.

Monica

[Forfarian]

I would be careful about laying too much weight on the absence of the word 'lawful' in James and Anne's marriage entry. If every other entry in the marriage register describes the parties as 'lawful son/daughter of ....' then it is reasonable to suppose that someone not so described is illegitimate. But if none of the other entries actually says 'lawful', you cannot make that assumption.

[Darwin]

Darwin, would be pure guesswork from me. From what you say, even with this family's RC roots, he may have attended Presbyterian services and not been close to the RC church and as such his name was not included on the Status Animarum, although the rest of his family were on this. Hard to be definitive.

Monica

Yes it's tricky - on Ann's marriage entry he has (Prot) after his name, which I found out was an abbreviation of Protestant. That, coupled with his absence on the Status Animarum is very puzzling, given his RC baptism and his RC parents. Ann was also recorded as (Prot) in some of her children's RC baptisms too. Her husband was RC.

[crombieburn]

I have been following your posts with great interest as I am researching in this area too.

Donald Carmichael, whom you mentioned, was the priest in this parish from 1808-1838. The new Catholic Church in Tomintoul was completed in1839, just after he departed but while it was being built he conducted baptisms etc. at Cults, where he also farmed. Can you tell me how you got information from the Status Animarum? I think that could be my next step through my Tomintoul tangle!