Access to the 1921 Census

[toni*]

access to the 1921 census early is a good idea and the Government are asking people to come up with ideas to create revenue but it would be breaking the 100 Year rule however this is only 70 years in the States they would need to see if it would cause problems by opening it up early, medical information should be withheld as it is with the 1911 census. Does it cause problems in the States to have a 70 year rule as opposed to the 100 year rule over here? Are there many people in America living to over the age of 100?
The DPA (Data Protection Act) is irrelevant once a person has died so it may be a question of you being able to access it upon proof the person is no longer living however there may be some people in the household who are still living so I don’t think that will work
I wonder if they would open it in a few years after all it does take time for the images to be uploaded into the relevant database perhaps its something they could get started on.

But I would personally prefer the registration papers for WW1 (can’t think of the actual name for them right at this minute) that was pre 1921 so this is something they could look at releasing before the 1921 census obviously this holds personal information such as height weight build hair colour eye colour next of kin but would be great for people like us and with the death of Bill Stone, Henry Allingham and Harry Patch last year I think the only other survivor is the chap who lives in Australia now. Perhaps they could release it to coincide with poppy day (Nov 11) because how else are they going to get the message across about WW1 now with no-one left to tell the tale it all becomes immaterial to the youngsters these days – they really need to make History lessons real (I have lots of ideas and I am thinking if I lose my job because of this recession I will train to become a History teacher!)

Slightly straying from the subject but did you hear the idea that the Government are thinking of giving people (unemployed) incentives to relocate to where there are jobs, I think the incentive would be a job itself and the prospect of earning money after all if our ancestors didn’t find a way of making money or move to where there were jobs then  we’d be in a sorry state and they would probably have starved or gone into the workhouse
I shall get off my soap box.

  

[Rah1980]

I thought (although I don't know where I got it from so could have imagined it!) that the 1911 census was the last the English and Welsh Government didn't state that the census would defo stay closed for 100 years which was why they were allowed to open it early, but from the 1921 onwards they had agreed to keep private for the 100 years. Apparently Scotland had agreed for the 1911 to keep that closed for 100 years which is why I am as yet unable to access the Scottish 1911.

Like I previously said I would love to access the 1921 early, but the records are not about me, and hold no personal info about me where as they do about my Nain (welsh for grandmother) who is currently 90 and still going strong (touch wood ) and I know she would be deeply upset if it was opened in her life time as the 1921 census will clearly show her being a bastard child to an unmarried mother. This is something my Nain is and has been ashamed of and tried to hide from friends and relatives her whole life so she would be devastated if people started to find out or worse still remark on it to her. It's easy to trivialise the effect this has had on her in these times but to her it is a real scare she was carried with her throughout her life, and I am sure there must be loads of similar stories like this. Perhaps as suggested by Toni if they could withold records of those living people who object until the 100 year rule has past might be a good way of getting around it, and I agree that the transcription should happen before so that it is ready to go live as soon as the 100 years has passed.

I'd also rather individual be able to transcribe the records instead of FindMyPast or ancestry who will make us pay through our nose just for one household, or at least get the government to set up a site so that they can make the profit, I am sure lots of people would volunteer. I do think it's wrong that we have to pay to see these things, once the cost of the project is recovered the items should be free to view (or profit go to Government)

Don't get me started on the welfare state or I will be here all day 

Sarah

[Plummiegirl]

1921 - neither of my parents were alive and now both a dead - so no problem for me there.

The information contained in the census would not offend anyone - surely it is only names addresses & occupations and unless you have not already found any "skeletons" of this generation cannot think what would be contained therein to offend.

After all until next year we are at present unable to see the last column on the 1911 census.

Even my g/aunt who is 98 would not be bothered about anything that is on there, we in the family know that she, her sister & mother lived in one house where her mother was "housekeeper" to a gentleman and that their father lived a few doors away.

[Sloe Gin]

But I would personally prefer the registration papers for WW1 (can’t think of the actual name for them right at this minute) that was pre 1921 so this is something they could look at releasing before the 1921 census

But these are already available on Ancestry, and had been available to view on microfilm at TNA for years previously.  It was also possible to order copies of the films through the LDS. 

(That is, those records that still exist - unfortunately the majority were destroyed during an air raid in 1940.)

Ancestry has in the past offered free access to all its military records throughout the month of November.

[toni*]

The British ones, not just the medal cards etc.  

however  i was actually referring to this (yes i know its WW2)

1939 (29 Sept) WW2 National Registration" (for ID cards)

[Sloe Gin]

The British ones, not just the medal cards etc.  

however  i was actually referring to this (yes i know its WW2)

1939 (29 Sept) WW2 National Registration" (for ID cards)

Perhaps you should re-read what you posted.

But I would personally prefer the registration papers for WW1 (can’t think of the actual name for them right at this minute) that was pre 1921 so this is something they could look at releasing before the 1921 census obviously this holds personal information such as height weight build hair colour eye colour next of kin but would be great for people like us and with the death of Bill Stone, Henry Allingham and Harry Patch last year I think the only other survivor is the chap who lives in Australia now. Perhaps they could release it to coincide with poppy day (Nov 11) because how else are they going to get the message across about WW1 now with no-one left to tell the tale it all becomes immaterial to the youngsters these days – they really need to make History lessons real

And to clarify, yes, I did mean that surviving British service records and attestation forms are already available, not just the medal cards.   

[Guy Etchells]

Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply.

First let me correct a few misconceptions about the census and confidentiality.

The 1921 census (and all later census) was carried out under the regulations imposed by the Census Act, 1920.
Nowhere in the Census Act, 1920 is there mention of closure for 100 years.

In 1991 the Census Act, 1920 was amended by the Census (Confidentiality) Act 1991.
Nowhere in the Census (Confidentiality) Act 1991 is there mention of closure for 100 years.

The hundred year rule that people love to keep mentioning has no basis in law. It is (as the Office of National Statistics (ONS) describes it) a non statutory rule. I.E. It does not have the backing of statute  (law).

However the ONS on one hand states there is a statutory prohibition but then claims they are going to release the census in 100 years.
The prohibition actually lasts forever there is no time limit on it.
This means that if it is possible to release it in 100 years it is possible to release it today.

If you do not believe me take a look at the legislation.
There is a transcript of the Census Act, 1920 on my website at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1920%20Census%20Act.htm

There is also a link to the Census (Confidentiality) Act 1991 on that page.

The Lord Chancellor's Instrument No. 12 of 1966 established the 100-year embargo rule. Prior to that, the delay in making census records public had been much shorter. For example, the 1841 and 1851 census records for England and Wales were both released in 1912. Scottish records were also held for less than 100 years. The 1891 Scottish returns, for instance, were made public after a delay of only 64 years. Given that the release of returns after 50 to 80 years was the practice in the first half of the last century, and that the Lord Chancellor's Instrument No. 12 of 1966 was 55 years away at that point, I would be very surprised if anyone who participated in that census really believed that their return would be held for exactly 100 years and not a day less. What is more, section 5(1) of the Public Records Act 1958 provides for the general release of records after 50 years, and that was reduced to 30 years in 1967.

Only six out of the 15 pre-1910 United Kingdom censuses have been closed for 100 years.
The details of nine out of 15 have been released after less than 90 years. (source Hansard 29 March 2004).

I should also point out that it was not until 1981 that census schedules carried the assurance that the census would be closed for 100 years.
This means only the 1981, 1991 and 2001 census carried that assurance.

It should also be noted that in this day and age any sensitive information such as medical conditions etc can easily be redacted as has been shown by the release of the 1911 census.
Cheers
Guy

[Daisy Loo]

Like I previously said I would love to access the 1921 early, but the records are not about me, and hold no personal info about me where as they do about my Nain (welsh for grandmother) who is currently 90 and still going strong (touch wood ) and I know she would be deeply upset if it was opened in her life time as the 1921 census will clearly show her being a bastard child to an unmarried mother. This is something my Nain is and has been ashamed of and tried to hide from friends and relatives her whole life so she would be devastated if people started to find out or worse still remark on it to her. It's easy to trivialise the effect this has had on her in these times but to her it is a real scare she was carried with her throughout her life, and I am sure there must be loads of similar stories like this.

Sarah

Surely the only way you can tell if a child is illigitimate is by the birth cert, with the absence of the name of the father?  Unless the head of house has clearly put on relationship that the child is illigitimate...which would be few and far between surely?

Guy thanks for clarifying things.  I am living in Ireland, and would be grateful if you could give direction as to where I could campaign etc for the early release?

[Sloe Gin]

Thanks, Guy.  Sorry we wandered off-topic with the mention of WWI military records.  But for those who have reservations about the disclosure of sensitive information, it might be relevant to point out that some of those records contain such detail, relating to the parents of people still living.  Yet they have been in the public domain for some time.

Daisy - one might well learn from these records that the 'father' of a child was a long way from home at the time of conception!