Access to the 1921 Census

[Guy Etchells]

Guy; Just point me, when and where to sign 

It is far better to write to an MP or Cabinet Minister via the House of Commons.

E.G. if a Cabinet Minister the letter should be addressed -

Rt. Hon. Ian Duncan Smith MP.
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA

If an MP simply - Mr. Bloggs MP

An example letter could be-

Dear Mr. Smith,

In view of the current financial position of the UK and in view of the fact that there was no commitment to the public in 1921 that the census would be withheld for 100 years I wish to ask that the 1921 census be released now.
The result of this would bring economic benefits to the UK at a time when it is most needed. It could also provide much needed employment.

The economic benefit may be shown by a Hansard reply of Mr Carmichael where he states
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/vo040329/debtext/40329-44.htm

“According to the National Audit Office report on the release of the 1901 census, "Unlocking the Past: the 1901 Census Online", the internet site allowing access to the England and Wales records generated revenues of £4.5 million by 31 October 2003.”

The 1901 census was released online in November 2002 (released initially January 2002 but withdrawn until November after the site crashed due to high demand) therefore that sum must be for approximately one year or less.

The figure may seem modest in national terms but in times of financial stress every form of income is a valuable asset.

The facts about withholding the census are also discussed in the above Hansard reply and I feel that in these times of open government and honesty in parliament the closure period should be urgently re-examined as the legislation that forbids the release of the 1921 census was not enacted until 1966 (Lord Chancellor’s Instrument number 12) and later under the Census (Confidentiality) Act 1991.

As these two pieces of legislation are retrospective they did not influence the electorate when they filled out the census schedules therefore they could be amended without breaching the trust of the electorate.

Yours faithfully


If MPs and cabinet Ministers get hundreds or even better thousands of letters coming in day after day they sit up and take notice.

Do not forget every MP is looking for ways to avoid making cuts in their department.
The 1921 census provides the means to avoid cuts, create income and provide jobs.
That is exactly what this government claim they are endeavouring to do, it therefore ticks every box.
Cheers
Guy

[davidft]

I think this is a stupid and mischievous idea, and personally I am disappointed that Guy has been allowed to bring it up yet again. In my opinion it is nothing short of trolling  

The simple fact is you won't get access to the 1921 census early. If you don't believe me look up the evidence given to Parliament by the ONS on their preparations for the 2011 census and the need not to jeopardise the creditability of censuses by breaking previously given undertakings

[Steve G]

 One mans " Trolling " may be seen as another mans Lobbying. I aim to buy a stamp 

[Maggie1895]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  I'd love to see it early, but I do take the point of some of the posters that many of those listed are still alive.

I just wish someone could direct as much energy at getting the 1911 opened for us where our families are north of the border.    It's incredibly frustrating being able to see a few relatives down south, but be champing at the bit to see the majority, knowing they are still locked up until next year.

In an odd sort of way, would it open a floodgate?   If I read Guy correctly around the 100 year rule, we could legally request sight of the 1921, 1931 and so on.   Sounds great for us, but many people who entered information in those years might feel differently.      Thinking back to my scribbling something on the 1971 whilst trying to keep the baby quiet, I don't want to be around when my children and grandchildren get the chance to see my appalling handwriting.

p.s what is trolling anyway?

[nigelp]

................ the need not to jeopardise the creditability of censuses by breaking previously given undertakings

As Guy has correctly pointed out (reply #15) there were no undertakings given for the 1921 census.

There was limited release of personal census data for genealogical purposes up to 1971 (ie up to and including information contained in the 1961 Census). In The Times of 13 July 1971 Sir Keith Joseph, Secretary of State for Social Services, was reported as stating:

"In view, however, of the public concern at the time of the recent census about the complete confidentiality of the information they provided, the Registrar General has decided to discontinue the practice of releasing anything at all within the 100-year period for the purpose of genealogy".

The reply of the Garter King of Arms in The Times of 14 July 1972 is also of interest in that even at that time a 70 year rule (not 100 year rule) was being suggested (albeit with restrictions):

"For genealogical research the old census records are of value, less for the information derived from them directly than as a means of entry into other record series. More often than not the genealogist wants from the census no more than date and place of birth and I venture to suggest that, with the consent of the person concerned or one of his direct descendants, these items alone could be released from censuses up to, say, that of 1901 without doing any damage to the public's confidence in the Government's assurances.

The benefits to research and to the thousands of people interested in tracing their own family history would be great".

For those who are concerned about confidentiality, the instructions for completion of the 1921 census form and the information that was disclosed in that census, as shown in the following link, may be helpful:

http://www.jaydax.co.uk/genlinks/images/1921CensusForm.pdf

The changes from the 1911 Census were:

Extra questions: -

1. whether a marriage has been dissolved by divorce
2. where each person works
3. the industry within which someone works

Deleted questions: -

1.  the number of children
2.  disabilities, namely, blindness, deafness or dumbness (on the grounds that the answers given in the 1911 census were unreliable and parents had objected to giving this information about their children).

Nigel

[davidft]

p.s what is trolling anyway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[Gartag]

As Guy opened this post on the subject of census, and it is primararliy a genealogical site, then that discounts it from trolling as defined by that link.

"'trolling' being used to describe many intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context."

The operative word being 'Outside'......   anyone got a spare stamp?

Garth

[mc8]

Guy; Just point me, when and where to sign 

It is far better to write to an MP or Cabinet Minister via the House of Commons.

 

Still grateful for your part in getting the 1911 released early, so interested in this thread. I'll use this 'template' to write a letter. Any advice on MPs who might be favourably disposed to the idea? As with planning applications, forget the petition approach as all names therein count as one item-separate letters count as individual lobbyists

ignore the twaddle about trolling Guy, nasty personal attacks are not the usual stuff of rootschatters. Your postings are well informed and well measured, unlike some

[Maggie1895]

Thank you David, I appreciate the link, and I'm certainly better informed as I now know it to mean "... troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion" 

Interesting because the only Trolls I've come across before were in Harry Potter and I didn't get the impression they were that erudite.

I'm afraid I don't see the connection though.   This is an online forum used by those interested in genealogy and researching family history.   It would seem perfectly relevant to ask others whether they would wish to support any move to open census early.     Whether they support the proposal or not is up to individuals, but this board does seem to be a perfectly reasonable place to pose the question?