Author Topic: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF  (Read 67870 times)

Offline Redroger

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #333 on: Friday 03 September 10 15:18 BST (UK) »
Robyn, Ian believes, and I and JDS concur, that it is more than likely AEH changed his year of birth when he went underground,so the age is likely to be inaccurate.Ian, Secrecy was the be all and end all of military life, and even beyond the military; when I worked on the railway, the timetables that we used for operational purposes were marked confidential, not for publication ( To an enemy working for the bus company I assume!)More seriously researching my late father's early life and military service of which I know very little, I discovered from a document in his possessions relating to the German's in WW2 that he may have been designated a "Stay behind", These were men who in the event of invasion had to stay where they were, go underground, and sabotage structures useful to the enemy, like in this case a rail bridge. I eventually contacted a man then aged 82 who as a boy had served with Dad in the same unit, and would have known. His answer to the question "I knew nothing about it, and it was all secret anyway". If he knew nothing how did he know it was secret?
Regarding the British Library, I had something of a failure. I was in London on some other business, and before that went to the Library. Showed my National Archives pass, which I found was invalid, so had to be photographed for a BL Pass luckily I had the required documents with me. Will try again when next in London, either 24th or 28th September, maybe both.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline regross

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #334 on: Saturday 04 September 10 01:44 BST (UK) »
hi

I agree that ther ages givine after his enlistment are most likley inaccurate s he was not young .

He does  appear in the Boer War records as Albert Harrison from Victoria

Service number: 968

Rank: Corporal
Unit: 5 (MNTD RIFLES) CNTGNT
Conflict: South Africa, 1899-1902 (Boer War)
State: VIC

Source: Murray page number - 287

from http://www.awm.gov.au/research/people/nominal_rolls/pre_first_world_war/person.asp?p=455955

My mother looked at the WW1 attestation papers and commented that he must have had a wealthy background to have been at the South Melbourne College .

Her father attended Wesley College in that period and to recieve a matriculation was a great feat then.


She also commented that had he been inteligent and daring then he may well have been recruited into the secret serevice in Britian and the subsequent courtmarshall may well have been contrived by the powers that be to free him up for their purposes.

He was it seems quite an experienced and well educated soldier.

Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline DeeBoneham

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #335 on: Saturday 04 September 10 18:11 BST (UK) »
Wheels within wheels this is getting curiouser and curiouser!!!!
Dee
75 (nz) Sqn
Boneham
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Offline Redroger

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #336 on: Saturday 04 September 10 19:15 BST (UK) »
With empty dossiers etc. etc. It just could be, or it could be another red herring.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)


Offline DeeBoneham

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #337 on: Saturday 04 September 10 23:13 BST (UK) »
Please dont let this thread ever end as I am becoming addicted to it... Ian what have you started!!!
Dee
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Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #338 on: Sunday 05 September 10 00:33 BST (UK) »
Dear all,

on Friday at work I wrote a response to JDS, I kept being interupted by work (an imposition) so I was writing it in Word and saving in an off-site repository, whereupon to my suprise our IT folk shut down the remote site at Camberra. I will recover this file tonight after 20:00hrs...Grrrrr!

On Saturday I wrote to you both and again at work I was being interupted (another imposition) to such an extent that the Rootschat session ended taking my response with it.

I guess the rule should be don't work at work...!

I hope JDS's response is coming tonight, (at work) so, here is another regurgitation of the original to Roger and Robyn...sorry..!


Dear Robyn,

AEH was born to William and Catherine Harrison on the 28th August 1879,
at home in Brick St Richmond Victoria. He had nine siblings and another seven who had perished in infancy, childbirth or in their youth. He was one of the last kids and had siblings that were up to twenty years older than he. My grandfather who was born in 1875 and AEH were great mates and grew up together. His mum died at 56 years of age and left him without a mum at (c) 15 years. His dad was a lot older than Catherine and so a lot of his care went to his older sisters.

Yes, he definitely did serve in the Boer War and became a Sergent, he was the colour Sergent Major at South Melb Colledge in Cadets. He was in the 5th Victorian Mounted Rifles and I have previously mentioned his involvement during the Whilmshurst Affair on this Forum. Note: he says nothing of his previous service at his Courts Martial. I don't have his actual records, but have quite a lot of info about his service

The 1888 fellow in the WO338 index is possibly our AEH but there is the issue of his birthdate in the RH column being 1888, this is the average age of men who served in WW1 so there is lots in this area. Albert was old about 35 years of age I believe. The only reason we have taken a more intensive look at this fellow is that there doesn't appear to be another Albert Edward Harrison Officer in WW1 but the 1888 age is not correct, perhaps its a mistake. I do want to locate the original register of Officers book and view the ink spot and see if there is some way of uncovering what is beneath the smudge, to reveal this man's regiment.

Back to his age,  Albert was very much like my Grandfather (I'm thinking Arthur Dailey the TV used car dealer) would describe them both pretty well, no flies on either of them, all the family was into the horses and perennial punters, all were very good at maths, my grandfather was a bookie and played cards and pool for money apart from his real job at JC Williamson the Australian Entrepreneur. Albert was many things but ultimately a Salesman and Traveller and I believe before he left for WW1 was Selling alcohol, we have recently discovered that he was bankrupt in Victoria and this is probably why he went to NSW in about 1908-1910. So the common thread for both my grandfather and AEH is women, money, horses, gambling. My grandfather had another woman on the side for 30 years she turned out to be my grandmother, two complete families. These two men were very fine looking fellows, were charismatic and bold, "Will-O-The-Wisp's" AEH 5'10'5" and my grandfather 6' both tall dark and handsome and both sportsmen.

The family is pretty sure he stayed in England and made another family, as for South Africa, I'm not sure I don't believe he would do that, he was a city boy living in Melbourne and then Sydney, he hankered for action on many fronts, so I'm thinking London would be his place of choice.

Sorry for the delay, hope this makes sense

Ian
Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK

Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #339 on: Sunday 05 September 10 00:33 BST (UK) »
G'day Roger,

AEH changed his age when he married Nora, she was older than him by about three years and she didn't know this. He continued this into his Military career to continue the lie of age increase. This age increase with variants went into his GCM also. His right age is in his Boer war records and this is before Nora. When I was originally tracking AEH down these age differences kept putting me off the scent, but it is the same fellow all the way along

Interesting info regarding your dad and the "stay behinds" really interesting that these things are hidden behind the scenes. I'm an Amateur (Ham) Radio Operator, at the commencement of the last wars, all Hams would have to pack up their equipment and send it off to the Government, this happened in all countries, they were worried that the equipment could be used by spies or the station or operator used by spies, such as what also happened to Light house keepers and marine radio stations. However, there were some who kept their gear hidden with clandestine antenna systems, so, if everything Military and Government was taken or destroyed, word of it could be broadcast for help, these were also "stay behinds" albeit civilians but trusted specialists. Hams are still buried all over the world now and all of us are GOV licensed and know how to build and operate radio equipment. During the war years most of the Radio people searching for spies in England, or in the fighting fields were Hams or  became Hams, these were the people who made the radio's in Concentration Camps and POW camps. And all already knew Morse Code, which was handy.

Bad luck at the BL, next time lets hope for less ID and more success...LOL, I'm sure its the same in the UK as it is in OZ, more ID is better than less according to the Gov. Everything is tracked, Event Recorders, Data-Bases on everything and all of them can intercommunicate together in the open systems approach to wide area networking "WAN" all the data-bases have common origins and if you haven't heard the term "data warehousing" then google it, all the government data bases can intercommunicate and be searched and interrogated in one location. Much of this is the result of 9/11. Since then I have to have a ASIO  Secret ++ Clearance to do my job for the GOV. "Too Many Secrets".......!!!

I hope this all makes sense, it's the second version and I've lost the plot a bit..!!

Ian
Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK

Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #340 on: Sunday 05 September 10 00:54 BST (UK) »
Dear Robyn again,


All the info you have regarding his Boer War Enlistment is correct, including his age at this stage.

He ended his time in the Boer War as a Sergent

He was being brought up by his siblings who did have money but he was a smarty and got a scholarship to South Melb Colledge, and then as we know Matriculated which was very unusual in those times in Australia, most kids left for work after year 8 and some year 10 if they were very lucky

Given that he had a history of money/women/gambling/grog, I think his Courts Martial was the real thing. Given that his estranged Australian family (Nora and Children) established that he had settled in the UK with another family, I believe that his disappearance was real and not contrived by the GOV or Military, but I could be wrong. Everywhere we go there is empty folders, ink smudges, missing record sequences...?

He was an experienced horseman, soldier and was a smartie, and probably a narcissist to boot. He'd been Militarised from year 6 at School in Cadets

Hope this helps

Ian
Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK

Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #341 on: Sunday 05 September 10 01:22 BST (UK) »
Dear Dee, Robyn, Roger,

I've used the term "Curiouser and Curiouser" myself a few times, and ending it with an outcome would please me immensely. I'm enjoying the journey myself but the behind the scenes research work is becoming huge and complicated (not that I mind) I'm glad it's created so much interest, I hope he's worth it..!

Living in OZ and doing UK non on-line research in the UK is daunting and difficult and without the Forums and personal assistance this would die a natural death. The most interesting aspect is the acquisition of knowledge of these unusual aspects of spies, stay behinds, changed names, Government cover ups, unusual armies in Russia, men paid king's ransoms to fight hidden battles, missing records, and records intentionally destroyed, multiple families and mischief behind the scenes by men who should know better.

Things like all the records of WW1 Medical Officers missing, and all but a few of the really senior British Officers records missing, makes for really interesting discussion

Cheers

Ian
Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK