Author Topic: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF  (Read 68039 times)

Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #45 on: Monday 21 June 10 23:19 BST (UK) »
G'day Redroger,

written in the UK....? maybe, I'm searching for smilar forms but no luck yet

Ian
Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK

Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #46 on: Monday 21 June 10 23:23 BST (UK) »
all,

regarding the Australian DVA reference card found in the empty file holder:

The card reads:

Harrison AE
Captain 19th Batallion
EX AIF Soldier registered Sydney
R98673 and G2/20470
registered in Sydney Australia

What is the UK organisation that runs the Returned Service Personnel Pension Scheme called and any relevant details?

I'm thinking that if I present the card to them they might have some idea of its use/origin/owner/

And while I'm at it I might just present it to the Australian DVA organisation

Ian
Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK

Offline Colin Cruddace

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #47 on: Tuesday 22 June 10 02:20 BST (UK) »
I've been enthralled by this thread and followed it with interest, but am no means an expert.
The statement that struck me as being relevant was that he was " dismissed from the King's Service". Wouldn't that preclude him from being accepted into any regiment in the British Empire? Especially if he was accepted as an officer, where his previous service must have been known?

Just a thought,
Colin



Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #48 on: Tuesday 22 June 10 06:23 BST (UK) »
G'day Colin,

its enthralled me for years also, but without an ending it’s getting  "%^&$#@"

your comment on:  " dismissed from the King's Service".

1: I am 90% sure that he joined the British Permanent Army given the documents found in his AIF records

2: I could never understand how he would just walk up to another Army establishment and say here I am employ me.

3: The new job would want to see his AIF Commission, Wouldn't they..... ?

4: They would then say why aren’t you fighting with your own mob......? wouldn't they.....?

But, maybe as someone else has said previously, maybe he was a Mason, maybe he had mates in the British Army, who would turn a blind eye, Officers were in demand, especially experienced ones. They might have said who cares!!! Grab the bastard and use him up as cannon fodder

And lastly, maybe he just lied a little, made a new name up, fronted up with some contrived evidence that we don't know about and bluffed his way through He'd been a Salesman, a Captain, and If I’m not mistaken had "the gift of the gab" like my grandfather his brother....!!

When I see the documents used as Official in 1917 and then know that he was in a position to get these original new documents and then say what he liked on them and or then go back to them and edit them to say or mean something quite different. (ie) change his name, or have friends that might do it for him, then it might be quite understandable and possible.

This situation for a basic soldier would be difficult,  but all of us who have held senior positions in Organisations know ways around the normal or legal or proper methods..... If you know what I mean. So, a Captain with contacts could arrange almost anything if he was desperate enough.

Off course, this is all conjecture at this point and all of this might end up being a unsolvable mad riddle

This matter has been researched over and over again by me and others, in many different ways. The fact that I'm opening it up to RootsChat is an example of another way for me/us to find out new facts a different way. The normal methods haven't worked. Working through the Military Archives using the normal methods hasn't worked, the normal documents attribued to an Officer arn't where they should be and there is ample evidance that they should be available.

I dispatched aletter to the Historical Records section of the UK MOD last night, with enough rope to either hang me or pull Albert back up out of the French mud, lets hope they might find something

One last thing here: you have had the chance to read his GCM, yes he was Court Martialled, as the paymaster said other officers took sums of money advanced from their wages and as for AWOL, it appears this was a pretty normal practice. He didn't take a pot-shot at the King or run from a battle. I wouldn't have a problem with hireing him, but then I'm an Aussie and pretty easy going about rules and regulations, "a rule breaker and not a rule maker"

Cheers

ian


Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK


Offline mmm45

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #49 on: Tuesday 22 June 10 06:59 BST (UK) »
Ill throw one into the pot...could he have joined Military Intelligence? and entered that murky world...wouldnt know where to begin looking for documents though?? 

This is a fascinating thread i hope you get a successful outcome

Ady :)
Lowe(Lower Gornall-Castleford)
Blackburn (Castleford)
Sidwell(Ledsham)
Fairburn(Hartshead)
Wood(Liversedge)
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Researching all Great War soldiers from the Spen Valley of West Yorkshire Especially lads from the Cleckheaton Company of 1/4th West Riding Regiment.

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 22 June 10 11:40 BST (UK) »
I've read through the court marshal. It really does look as if their was either a woman involved or he had got into debt - and why he didn't just say that while adding 'but I will not name them' baffles me. He didn't do anything heinous and I can't help thinking if he'd owned up they might just have reduced him in rank and sent him elsewhere. The dates don't really tie in with his BIL Syd's misdemeanours so I am baffled as to why there is the note in Syd's file which mentions them both.

I couldn't help thinking reading it that he'd done just enough to get dismissed but nothing worse and I wonder he was actually hoping that his actions would get him dismissed? 

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #51 on: Tuesday 22 June 10 14:28 BST (UK) »
Reading Albert's Army records again.

On 10 October 1919 Nora received a letter

Dear Madam,

I forward herewith Form of commission covering the appointment of your husband ex-Captain A E Harrison 19th Battalion as a temporary 2nd Lieutenant in the Regular Forces of the British Army, for transmission to him. This refers to the first appointment to Commission and not to subsequent rank. Will you kindly let me know whether same comes safely to hand by signing and returning the attached receipt form.


She signed and returned the receipt on 24 October 1919. Why? If she didn't know where her husband was she couldn't send it to him, but there are no letters from her querying this letter in Albert's file. That makes no sense  ???

I know this is only asking an old question, but if he was dismissed by his court marshal why did Nora receive a letter dated 13 June 1918 saying that Albert had applied for and was eligible for discharge from the services from 28 August 1918 which was over a year after the court marshal took place?

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.

Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #52 on: Tuesday 22 June 10 22:56 BST (UK) »
G'day Ady, (MMM45)

The "murky world of Military Intelligence"?  this had occurred to me more than once in the beginning of my research when many things didn't add up or lead anywhere.

The military researchers (professionals) just couldn't make head or tail of it all and kept coming up with red herrings.

Since then, some of those dead ends have been resolved or at least understood a little better..

So, although it all seems like a deliberate mess or contrived set of circumstances, I think it's a mess because either Albert made it this way to conceal his identity or the normal paper chase has been messed up due to time and actions by the Authorities in culling historical documents and I shouldn't leave ot the German bombing and subsequent burning of the London based records

The first thing I need to do is confirm his entry into the British Army then the unit or Batallion, then we'll see if it could be MI3, I'd be happy if it was, he's apparently good at keeping or creating a secret, he's got us second guessing his secrets 93 years later.................................LOL

Ian
Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK

Offline Craven-Harrison

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Re: Help: Court Martialled & Missing in UK, Capt: Albert Edward Harrison AIF
« Reply #53 on: Tuesday 22 June 10 23:56 BST (UK) »
Dear Carole,

firstly, the response from Alberts's family is deafening in its silence! quite understandable given the info that you have unearthed has I'm sure been painful and previously unknown to them....... (but they want to know)

you said: It really does look as if their was either a woman involved or he had got into debt We know that another woman had been spoken about in the family and by Nora, again anything like my grandfather and it would be another woman 

I believe that similar to my grandfather, Albert would have been a gambler, just an assertion no proof!! "I'm pretty certain that my grandfather was a professional punter he certainly was a bookie and BIG card player, I'm thinking that little brother might have learnt some tricks from him. He certainly had financial problems

Albert had been bankrupt in Victoria, An exert from the Melbourne Argus Newspaper : June 15th 1909

New Insolvents: Albert Harrison of Princess St Kew, Traveller, Causes of insolvency - loss of employment followed by sickness of wife and childand having to pay heavy interest on borrowed money Liabilities - 65 pounds Mr A S Baillieu Assignee. He sunsequently went to NSW with Nora and the kids in (c) 1912 with three children under four years of age  then another child in 1913 and then two years later he joined WW1 in 1915

I agree that he wanted out, I don't think he wanted to stay in England initially given his tirade upon being caught whilst AWOL

I absolutely believe that both men were involved in some sort of mischief to have common or combined crime info on Syd's file

Ian
Harrison:  Elslack in Craven, Broughton in Craven, Carleton in Craven, Earby, Cowling, in UK
Harrison:  Richmond, Kew, Carlton, Brushgrove, Melbourne , in Oz
Capt A E Harrison. AIF,  Missing in UK