finding my family McIvers and langtry

[Maggie1895]

Well, you've hit your three posts so I've sent you a message.   Look at the top of the screen and it should tell you when it arrives.   
Maggie1895

[Maggie1895]

Thomas Tootle, son of Sarah Jane, seems to have been born in Liverpool in Q1 of 1906 (vol 8b, page 25).
What that's led me to wonder which of 3 possibilities is correct:
1. if whether Thomas was born to Sarah as a single mother, 2 years before her marriage to Stephen McIver,
2. if he was born to Sarah but Stephen was his natural father (less likely as he had the surname Tootle after their marriage)or
3. if Sarah was married and possibly widowed before their marriage - in which case her maiden name wouldn't have been Tootle.
I'll have a look for a marriage for a Tootle in the year or two before Thomas's birth to see if we can establish the last one - at least their name wasn't Smith!

[Maggie1895]

Well, I can't see any earlier marriage to a Mr Tootle so let's assume that the Sarah Jane Tootle born in 1887 is the lady in question.
in 1891, when she was a child of 4:

William Tootle, head of household, Dock Labourer,  28
Alice J Tootle, wife, 27
Children are Mary aet 6, Sarah J aet 4 and William H aet 1
All born in Liverpool
Not sure of the address - looks like 'something Court' - the address before is Clement Street and it's in the St Martin district of Liverpool

[findmyfamily]

hiya maggie

thanks for your help.....far more mcivers than i ever anticipated

[Maggie1895]

1901 census:
Tootles are still at the same place,
William. Alice, Mary or May, Sarah and William jrn all just 10 years older but a lucky family because all 3 children seem to have survived, now joined by:

John aet 7, George aet 5, Alice aet 1.

possible McIvers
Stephen McIver, 52
Mary, 49
Edward 17
Stephen 15.
Address looks like 48 Gerrard Street, Islington district of Liverpool
Stephen snr is a Basket Weaver, self employed, working from home.  Born in Ireland
Mary was born in Liverpool, Lancashire, as were the boys.   Both Edward and Stephen are working as 'scavengers'.    That's not one I've come across before but I'm sure someone on this board will be able to enlighten us both as to exactly what that means.

There's no guarantee that this 1901 census entry is 'your' Stephen McIver, you would need to do much more cross checking to be sure, but I'm afraid the one below looks as if it is yours.  I didn't go looking for this, it just came up:

Private Stephen McIver, Service No 3933
1st/8th Bn, Kings Liverpool Rgt
Died on 11th September 1916
Remembered on the Thiepval Memorial
Husband of Sarah J. McIver, of 22, St. Sylvester Place, Tatlock St., Liverpool.

Sorry.

[gortonboy]

hi maggie...this is where the problems start,,,if Stephen died in 1915,,,,then sarah mciver b 1919 cannot be Stephens child ??

[Maggie1895]

Aah.
Totally see your point, Gortonboy.   So either there were two Stephen McIvers married to a Sarah Jane, or we have been pursuing the wrong line.
The death record came up in a general search on A******, and I went to the Commonwealth War Graves listing to check it out.    That's where the line relating to 'husband of Sarah J' came from.   
The other possibility I can think of is that Sarah continued to increase her family after Stephen's death?    I had found that in the last census to be available Stephen and Sarah were together, with Mary age 18 months and Thomas Tootle age 5, born in 1906, and you had already found Sarah and Stephen's marriage was in 1908.
I think that is less likely considering the number of brothers and sisters findmyfamily says Sarah had.    If Sarah Jane married again, wouldn't the rest of her children have her new husband's name?
It all looks like a glorious mystery where we need to go to basics and work back from the one thing findmyfamily already had - the birth of her grandmother in 1919.
My best guess would be that the birth certificate for Sarah McIver b 1919 needs to be checked to confirm exactly who her parents were.  Does that make sense to you or have I missed something?

[gortonboy]

that is exactly what i said....we really need the info from one of the childrens birth certs,,sarah maybe,,,who was born after stephen died.....

[Maggie1895]

You are so right - it's so easy to get caught up in new discoveries, even though the only way to be sure is to start at the one piece of information you have that is certain, and plod back from there.
Wish I remembered that more often!!