People of German origin in nineteenth century Liverpool

[tilly25]

Hi

Are the archives for Hannover online? I haven't investigated this or is it a matter of visiting Germany

Judy

[greyingrey]

Sometime in the next 2 or 3 weeks, I'm going to do the Ancestry free trial, so, if you give me all the details you've got (approx age etc), I'll have a look (will be looking for my friend's ancestor). From what I can gather, there's not much on the German Ancestry site...for example, they don't offer a year's subscription because there's not enough to keep you occupied for that long (!) & there's not much German stuff online in general. The way to do it (this is what I've gathered from people like Berlin Bob) is to apply to the relevant German archive.....helps if you can find them on a shipping list to Britain first, though, as you may get an idea of where they come from,,,or you could end up paying archives to do searches when they didn't come from that area at all. What makes you think he was from Hannover ?

My friend thinks her ancestor came over to Britain as part of the household of Caroline of Brunswick, so she was told that the relevant archive in Germany was the one holding the records of that royal family....however, nothing has turned up there (I think they charged her 17/19 Euros to do the search), so they've advised her to try the normal Hannover archive. They like you to send an email, but I've phoned for her first to find out the best address to send it too etc etc.....I'm quite happy to phone for people....I live in Germany & have a telephone flat rate ....or I can translate either the emails you get or write the ones you send, if you like. The archives usually have people who speak English, but, if it's in German, they can't say there have  been any misunderstandings. We have certain reservations about the way she's been treated by Caroline's family archive.....we may be wrong, but it seemed a bit slapdash....I chased them on the phone & we got the impression it had been lying in a corner & she thinks they may have been looking at the wrong household. An email has been sent, putting her points to them, but the chap who dealt with it is on holiday...so we'll see what happens.

This is the only foray into German archives that I've been involved with...so I don't know what the general standard is like (you could ask on the relevant board) ....I've only had direct dealings with one archive in Britain &  experienced people have said to me that they get the impression they've been messing me around....I guess there are good & bad archives....I've got to try Somerset archives next & I've been told by 2 people that they're very good (if there are going to be any archives left after the Budget)

Anyway, if you'd like me to make any enquiries in Germany for you, just ask here or via a private message

[greyingrey]

Having said there's not much online, you can strike lucky, but it's very difficult if you don't know the area they came from (also helps to know the religion). Sorry,....if you're on a German forum, your German is probably very good....maybe you could tell me what the forum is, as it might help me....I've also got a line where I only have "born in Germany"

[greyingrey]

Hello tilly/judy & anyone else who might be interested in this.......Google Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers & you should get a link to a database with a list of refiners/bakers split alphabetically....your John Frederick is there in Liverpool on the 1841 census & that might be his daughter's birth there, too (he's just listed as John there) There are also a Jürgen & a JJ there, listed as resident in Hamburg......so maybe your John Frederick's origins lie there rather than Hannover ?.

My friend was a member of the Anglo German Family History Society  for a short while & they sent her a copy of work done by someone (she thinks the name was Len Metzner) A German church was established serving this German community in Liverpool (you can google to get further information) & Metzner transcribed all the records. She suggests you email the Anglo German Family History Society & tell them what you're after & see what they come back with.

Hope this helps....can't take credit for any of this...it has just been passed on to me

[greyingrey]

As I've said, my German born g grandfather in Liverpool was a Dreyer (a cabinet maker)....loads of them on this list, but they seem to come from Hannover, whereas his place of birth on the census records is Berlin. Berlin seems probable because he was an inveterate gambler & used to ask his wife for money. (his English was very poor all his life)...so much so, that his daughter (my grandmother's) only knowledge of German was the equivalent of "Have you got any money ?" As my husband is German, my grandmother used to repeat this story very often & he said she said it in a very strong Berlin accent

[tilly25]

Hi

I found out that John Frederick Behn born approx 1795 (from 1841 census) came from Hanover as a distant relative said that her mother told her that the family originated from Hanover. He married Alice Pattison in Feb 1825 in Liverpool

I went on the european part of rootschat and Berlinbob put me in touch with a german forum that he then translated for me. (forum sur Ahnenforschung)
To date I haven't had any response

I don't know what religion John Frederick was as the family were baptised in St Peters, Liverpool and there is an anglican and RC Church of this name, but the next generation were baptised in st Michael Aughton which was anglican but of course this could come from the wifes side of the family

I did see the sugar refiners list but that hasn't really helped me progress, I have really hit a brick wall trying to delve further into the german side, I look at the lists of people coming into the country at Kew and unfortunately they are all after the date of the marriage and few have the full name recorded, mainly just Behn

Judy

[greyingrey]

Well, my ancestor has put place of birth as Berlin on some records & Hannover on others.....

The only thing I can suggest is to pay for a search at either the Hannover or Hamburg archive.....whichever you think is the most likely.....& see if they have anything. Let me know if you'd like me to phone them to get an idea of how much it would cost

[tilly25]

Hi

If its not to much trouble could you find out the cost of searching in the archive

Many thanks

Judy

[greyingrey]

No problem tilly/judy.....I'll give them a ring.....if the cost sounds OK to you, though, I'll  formulate  (if you like) an email for you to send about it, so that they can then confirm it in writing....wouldn't want there to be any misunderstandings