1851 census or directory look up Richmond : Van Toll

[martianuk]

And Hi Bryant!

I did find Henry in 1851: on honeymoon in Bath with his new bride. It's 1841 that's a mystery now and I think will remain that way forever.

Born in Amsterdam, but in the UK since 6 weeks old (it's on his Naturalisation documents) with nameless 'aunt' as his only living relative, I have no idea where he was in 1841.

He's such a fascinating character too and led a rich existance - only to die at 28 on a barge that left Richmond and floated down the Thames to the River Medway in Strood. He got caught in the famous 1854 cholera epidemic.

His wife then gave birth to my gt gt grandfather, three years later, calling him Frank Orlando Henry Delmar Van Toll and claiming the long-dead Van Toll to be the father....

Seems they were all colourful. Must have been diluted by the time I came along!

Happy New Year - Kirsty 

[Bryant]

Kirsty

Are we saying Henry was born 1826ish......1854 minus 28=1826ish

what was his wife's name and age and where was she in 1841?

I also note he is a wine merchant in 1852 

http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/findbylocation.asp

1852 Directory of London (small edition) image 534 of 941....original page 1038
Van Toll Henry & Co wine merchants, St Mary at Hill

sandwiched between Eastcheap and Billingsgate fish market and two hundred yards away from the Tower of London.........the Streets are still there today as is the Church, the fishmarket however has now moved to pastures anew

Bryant

[martianuk]

Hi Bryant,

Emma Mary Lamb was Henry Van Toll's future bride and she was 12 in 1841 and at Church Street in Twickenham, along with her parents.

Henry was known to have lived in the UK all bar 6 weeks of his life. This was in his Naturalisation docs of 1849. His only living relative was 'aunt' - no name or indication of address. I assumed she was in England and had had him since 6 weeks old. No idea.

The first chronological info on him is this:
from the War Office, April 21, 1846 (Source: The Times Archives)
74th Foot.-Ensign Frederick Fellowes to be Lieut., by purchase, vice Cardew; Henry Delmar Van Toll, gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Fellowes.

The Times, Wednesday, May 24, 1848; pg. 7; Issue 19871; col A
74th Foot - John Gordon, Gent, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Van Toll, who retires.

Then this:
The Times, Thursday, Aug 17, 1854; pg. 1; Issue 21822; col A
Deaths
On the 12th inst. (instance of August), age 27, Henry Delmar Van Toll, Esq., of Richmond, Surrey, late of 74th Highlanders.

In late 1852, Emma and Henry had a residence in Portsmouth, Hampshire and he, being a gentleman fundholder, would spend long periods away yachting. Henry passed a 1000 pounds to a Captain friend to invest for Emma - should anything untoward happen to him whilst away - and the Captain went bankrupt before paying the later widowed Emma. She had to file bankruptcy (1856) too and her address was The Green, Richmond. Her brother George William Needham Lamb was resident in Richmond from at least 1855 and was at Richmond Rd, Twickenham in 1851. He ran The Cricketers on Richmond Green in 1855. The barge that carried sick Henry away in 1854 operated from Richmond.

The Guildhall Library sent me this:

"I have checked Richmond directories for 1848, 1851 and 1853 but failed to find an entry for the surname Van Toll.  I have also searched the National Probate Calendar Indexes from 1853 to 1857 and Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills online at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/wills.asp, but again without success.

With regard to Henry van Toll & Co, wine merchants, there is no such listing in Post Office London directories of 1851 and 1853.  As the business was at 28 St Mary at Hill for such a short time I have not attempted to locate Henry van Toll in rate books or electoral registers; searches in both these resources are very time-consuming and often unproductive."

As far back as 1841 was and the surname of the aunt (married? English or Dutch?) is all unknown to me.

Ah well, if only I were a psychic and could ask them myself.... Perhaps not - I'd be too spooked!!!

Kirsty

[martianuk]

sandwiched between Eastcheap and Billingsgate fish market and two hundred yards away from the Tower of London.........the Streets are still there today as is the Church, the fishmarket however has now moved to pastures anew

Bryant

P.S. Very interesting - thanks! Wish I could wander round and take a look!
K

[Bryant]

Kirsty

I have looked at all Henry's in Middx in 1841 of a birth 10-18 that was foreign (he felt like a Middlesex person to me!) with no luck, but after reading the 74th Highlanders article below, perhaps we should be looking at an Irishman/Scotsman or the son of an Irishman/Scotsman that was born in one of the Countries they (74th) was actively engaged in...........by the look of it the 74th were in the West Indies and North America until they returned to England in 1845, so Henry if he followed his father's footsteps may have joined the army as a boy soldier sometime around 1832?...........employing a researcher to look for his army records at the National Archives could be £30/£40 well spent (you have 3 documented events, hopefully they would be enough for a researcher to track him down reasonably quickly if his records still exist) if they do one would like to think that his family history would be part of those records?

The 74th Highlanders were in the main made up of Scots, of those that were not Scottish in the main they were Irish!............so where does Henry fit in?

Below is a site that recalls their campaign history and movements of the period Henry was with them.......

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/scotreg/74th-1.htm

Best of luck
Bryant

[martianuk]

Hi Bryant,

This is a reaaaally old post, I know, but can I ask you a question associated with it? The army records you reference, would they be ones that record the physical features (height etc.) of the soldier as he enlists, and I've never employed a researcher before and am very wary of digging one up via Google - can you tell me how I should go about looking for someone to help find the documents?

Many thanks,
Kirsty

[Bryant]

Hello Kirsty

An old one it is....

If you purchase a Family Tree Magazine or something similiar you will hopefully find in the small ads page/pages researchers in all areas of the Country specialising in various fields of family history....Prices would have gone up but I still think that -£50 would be a ceiling for the research....but check on the War records section of rootschat as there are people on there with far more knowledge on the subject than me.

If you was looking at Boer War 1899-1901 or first World War 1914-1918
Hopefully if the person's records (that you are looking for) are there to be found they will include enlistment documents ie height, build, colour of eyes, any scars/features etc and his service records which will include where he was, when he went home, when he was demobbed etc and somewhere in there should be family details?
If you are looking pre Boer War i'm not sure what they would include but discuss that with whoever you employ (they normally supply you with an email address and telephone number).
Make sure you supply the researcher with all the information you have on the individual that you are looking for as it makes there job that much easier!

Bryant

[BakerMarks]

Another dimension to the Delmar Van Toll connection: the Grade II Listed Tompson Delmar monument in Kensal Green Cemetery commemorates Frederick Orlando Tompson Delmar (1812-1895) and his wife, Maria Minna Tompson Delmar (c.1796-1859). Notices of their marriage, in 1842, identify her as the widow of Col. Henry Delmar of the Dutch Service, and although the marriage certificate is scrawled, her father's name looks something like Henry Vulderplan; I have yet to find any surname quite like that, but it certainly seems to be Dutch, and her birthplace on the census of 1851 is cited as Holland. So, there's a connection to the Netherlands, and the unusual coincidence of the names Orlando and Delmar. Could Maria have been the unnamed aunt on Henry's naturalisation papers? Can anyone identify her maiden name?

Maria left £3000 in her own right in 1859, a considerable sum for the day but nothing compared to the £185,699 left by Frederick in 1895. Of course, he was also a shareholder in various railways, so he may have made at least some of his own fortune. However, after Maria's death, Frederick gradually changed his surname from Tompson to Tompson Delmar, and then simply Delmar; his final bequest established the Delmar Charitable Trust (still active today, supporting hospital and animal charities as he wished). The business of the surname, and the fact that Maria was some 20 years his senior, suggests that the money came from her side, possibly with a condition that the Delmar name be adopted by beneficiaries.

It's all the sadder to think of the poor young widow's having to sue to recover her own inheritance, and then going bankrupt, when there was serious money in the extended family. The naming of Frank Orlando Henry Delmar Van Toll ties all these strands together, but how does Henry Delmar Van Toll relate to the Dutch-born Maria Minna Delmar? She could certainly have been his aunt, quite possibly through the Delmar connection, since they both got the name and probably some money also. But then, who were the Delmars?

[BakerMarks]

A bombshell for anyone interested in Henry Delmar Van Toll:

I've just played a hunch and come up trumps with the will of Henry Philip Hope (1774–1839), scion of the Anglo-Dutch banking family of that name and a collector of art and gems who once personally owned the Hope Diamond. He left a great deal of money and some valuable mementos to young Henry Delmar Van Toll and his aunt (or 'aunt'?), Maria Minna Delmar. Hope's will states that Mrs. Delmar was his 'esteemed, beloved and valued' friend for 'upwards of 37 years', but that doesn't preclude the possibility that young Henry was their child, rather than her nephew.

I am writing to everyone I can identify with an interest in the extended family to ask if anyone has found evidence that young Henry's putative father, also Henry Delmar Van Toll, existed at all. It's certainly rather odd that he should carry the name 'Delmar' when Maria Minna Delmar is otherwise identified as the widow of one Colonel Delmar of the Dutch service, and her maiden name seems to be something like 'Vanderplan' (it's not clear on her marriage certificate of 1842, and three native Dutch speakers have yet to decipher it for me).

Hope's will explains how Maria Minna Delmar and Henry Delmar Van Toll both came to be wealthy, but it deepens the mystery of his birth and her early life. In the event, her second (?) husband, Frederick Orlando Tompson Delmar, inherited her money and her name, and on his death endowed a charitable trust that exists to this day.

Any light any other family historian could shed on this story would be appreciated by the Friends of Kensal Green Cemetery, who are now keeping a watchful eye on the Grade II Listed Tompson Delmar monument, one tangible legacy of this remarkable story.