Thomas Musgrave. Death help please. Pennsylvania.

[johnnyboy]

Thanks for that link Shelly. There is a way on the results page to add custom date range, so I tried that, and got no results.

That means Ben will have to browse the individual issues for 1961 to find an obit.

John 

[coombs]

Thanks. It might throw up something on her obituary.

I could try it for an obit for Thomas Musgrave 1906-1910.

[coombs]

UPDATE.

Nothing new on Thomas Musgrave's death but several Penna marriages have been released on the Pilot site.

Robert Sutherland born May 1859, England wed Elizabeth Wilson born 23 April 1857 were wed and gives her previous marriage as the death of her first husband.

And Margaret Musgrave born 1 March 1868 wed Thomas Prosser born 1868 on 23 September 1889.

Thomas William Wilson who was the son of Elizabeth Sutherland nee Musgrave wed Sarah J Sutherland in 1895 and gives his date of birth as 16 May 1873.

The numbers highlighted in bold are the wrong years. Elizabeth Musgrave later Wilson was born 23 April 1852. The 7 may be a 2 as it looks a bit obscured on the image card.

Margaret Musgrave was born 1st March 1871 and my natural assumption is that she pretended to be 21 when she wed when she was 18 and gave her DOB as 1 March which was correct but 1868 instead of 1871.

Thomas William Wilson was born 16 May 1872 in Durham, England son of Robert Wilson and Elizabeth nee Musgrave. When he wed in 1895 his year of birth was a year out. It is the day and month which really confirms the right people. So yes my 3xgreat grandfather's 1886 passenger list entry to America is the right one. By the time he died 1906-1910 he had been an American resident for about 20 years.

[johnnyboy]

Hi Ben: In the interest of leaving no stone unturned: Since Pittsburgh is only twenty miles or so from Thomas Musgrave's last known residence in McDonald/North Fayette, I thought I should check the recently released Pittsburgh City Deaths, 1870-1905 database on FamilySearch.org (the Pilot website) for Musgraves.

I found nothing related to your 3xgreat grandfather Thomas Musgrave.

There was an infant female Musgrave who was born and died in 1904. Her parents were Thomas S. Musgrave and Nettie Musgrave.

Perhaps you may want to look for yourself. The database is under Pennsylvania in the U.S. section of the Pilot website.

John 

[johnnyboy]

Margaret Musgrave was born 1st March 1871 and my natural assumption is that she pretended to be 21 when she wed when she was 18 and gave her DOB as 1 March which was correct but 1868 instead of 1871.

Hi Ben: You're probably right about the discrepancy in Margaret Musgrave's age. When my parents-to-be married in Pennsylvania, my mother was under the age of 21. Her father, who lived in another state, had to send a sworn affidavit of consent to the county in Pennsylvania where the marriage was to take place.

You can see an actual affidavit of consent, and a bonus is that it is for one of your relatives--Mary Ellen Wilson, married 1901 to John Saix. Mary Ellen was only 16 at the time of the marriage, and her mother, Elizabeth Sutherland had to provide a sworn affidavit of consent.

The image of the affidavit, at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159316-50985-56?cc=1589502&wc=13514154,  is from the Pennsylvania County marriages database.

Click the leftward-pointing grey arrow just above the word Print to go back one image (to #1499), and you'll see the application for John and Mary Ellen's marriage license. Images #1498 and #1497 are also connected to WIlson-Saix marriage, but they are only images of the backs of pages.

Incidentally, the Pennsylvania County marriages database has two entries for John Saix. Both pertain to John and Mary Ellen. The first one has an image of the marriage docket book. The second one has the four images of Mary Ellen Wilson's consent affidavit.

Regards,
John 

[coombs]

Hi Johnnyboy

Thanks. Very interesting. Margaret was 18 in Sep 1889 and her month and day of birth ties in with her birth cert but she added 3 years to make it look she was over 21. In the 1900 census she says Mar 1871 as her month of birth and year and in 1930 census she says she was 18 when she first married.

Have you noticed it gives the death date of Mary Ellen Wilson's natural father as well. July 17th 1887. That must be Robert Wilson.

Be good to find something like that on Thomas Musgrave.

Ben

[coombs]

I wonder if there is any further images for the Margaret Musgrave wedding in 1889? I shall take a look, same for the Elizabeth Wilson remarriage in Dec 1887.

So her first hubby was still alive when she bought the grave in October 1886. My 3xgreat grampy had just landed in Pennsylvania from England so she may have guaranteed him a grave when he died and it may have been for a child that may have died then as well.

[johnnyboy]

Hi Ben: I did notice Robert Wilson's death date on the affidavit of consent that Elizabeth Sutherland filed for Mary Ellen Wilson's marriage. I think a mistake was made along the way. If Robert Wilson died July 17th 1887, it's seems hardly likely that Elizabeth would have remarried less than six months later, on Dec. 24, 1887, as the Marriage License Docket says she did. And why would she have bought a grave plot in 1886 if Thomas Wilson hadn't died then? Perhaps a clerk misheard the information or someone gave the wrong date.

As to you other question: There should be some sort of image in the marriage database for everyone you mention above in Reply #173. But I think multiple images will only appear for marriages where there was an issue, such as the need for a consent affidavit.

If you do go looking for images, be sure to click backward and forward in the images for additional images related to a particular marriage. My parents' marriage had four images in the database. One of the images--the duplicate coupon sent to the county by the person performing the marriage--is not in the county records. The actual document must have been lost after being returned and microfilmed.

It also pays to look at the entry for both persons. Some information may appear only in the bride's or the groom's entry.

John 

[coombs]

Hi Johnnyboy

Re the death of Robert Wilson. In those days it was not unusual for a widow to remarry within a year or sooner of widowhood. With young children to support as well she may have felt the need for a new husband and she may have known him beforehand and a bond formed between them. I am more in the opinion that she bought the grave plot in October 1886 in general, perhaps a baby had died and she bought it for the future. Maybe her husband was ill for a while before he died perhaps?

Ben