Two weeks before Ireland - help appreciated.

[shanew147]

I just had a look back at the previous thread on the family at : Kavanagh and Carton of Brockage Wicklow... did you ever try that possible baptism record for Catherine in Rathdrum to see if it matched the details you have ?


Shane

[eyshame]

Have re-read that link and did look at Griffiths but got totally lost as i didn't understand what it was telling me.
Lost about possible baptism record for Catherine so no i didn't.

[shanew147]

Griffith's valuation was a taxation survey, which recorded the details of people holding property. The dates of the records vary depending on when the various townlands were surveyed, but in the case of the county Wicklow they are generally dated 1853 or 1854.

There are just 5 entries for the surname Carton in the county on Griffith's :

 1. Ralph, Village of Laragh, townland of Brockagh  (1854)
 2. James,  townland of Meetings (1854)

I believe  that Meetings refers to the townland near Avoca also known as the 'Meeting of the Waters', and this is located just 13km south of Laragh.

The other Carton listings are, further away from Laragh/Brockagh, and dont seem as likely :

 3. Edward, townland of Knockananna,  (1853)
   30km south west of Laragh and near to Hackettstown (Carlow)

 4. Terence , townland of Balyknocker (1853)
   50km south and not far from the town of Carnew

 5. Judith, townland of Lower Kilcavan (1853)
   also near the town of Carnew

I based the previous baptism search for Catherine on the clue that her father's name was possibly Ralph - and that was the only match around the right time. The RC parish on that possible match was Rathdrum which is the one immediately to the south of Glendalough RC parish (where Laragh/Brockagh is located). The location of the 2nd Griffiths record mentioned above (James Carton,  townland of Meetings) would be in this parish, and very close to Laragh, so a connection seems possible.

To prove that the 1829/Rathdrum parish baptism is correct, you would probably need to double check for any details recorded on Catherine's marriage to confirm that her father's name is indeed Ralph.



Shane

[jud72]

Eyshame,

The following is an extract from the published notebooks of a district judge who was living and working in County Wicklow in the 1940's and 1950's. His name was Liam Price and he took a particular interest in the history of the area. He seemed to have spent a good deal of time touring the county, and kept notebooks detailing the places that he visited and the people that he met.

(The Liam Price Notebooks Part II Page 549) 22nd June 1952
Frank Byrne of Granabeg told me about the house which is now the easternmost house in Oakwood: a good-sized farmhouse standing in trees. It is not on the 1840 map. It was built by a man named Farrington. He got a lease of the place, and evicted the seven houses which stood 150yds to the W: these are shown in a group on the 1840 map. He pulled down the walls and ploughed up the gardens. There were Cullens in it, and Kavanaghs. Some went to Clane in Co. Kildare, others went to Brockagh. Byrne did not say when this took place, but it was probably in the 1860’s.

Oakwood was in the civil district of Hollywood at the time of the Griffith Valuation (around 1852) but there were no Kavanaghs listed there at that time. Oakwood was actually in the Catholic parish of Boystown (also called Blackditches or Valleymount). Price was mostly interested in Co. Wicklow, so there is little doubt that he is referring to Brockagh, Derrylossary.

[eyshame]

Shane i would love to have the mariage cert of  Catherine and John Kavanagh, nee Carton if only i knew where to look to get it.

Jud72, that is very interesing information so thanks for that. I have yet to find out if the Cartons' and Kavanaghs' came from Brockagh or elsewhere in Ireland. I would love to find that information out though but being new to family research and very new to Irish history/family research i have no clue where to look.
E.

[aghadowey]

Shane i would love to have the mariage cert of  Catherine and John Kavanagh, nee Carton if only i knew where to look to get it.

Civil registration of Catholic marriages began in 1864 (non-Catholic marriages, including Registry Office ones, from 18450. Therefore, the first thing to do is to check the civil index. If the marriage isn't there it's likely they were married before 1864 in a Catholic ceemony which means seaarching for existing church records (which is why you need to know the parish, if not the townland).
See here: www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html

[shanew147]

I believe I checked the civil index for their marriage before, but found no sign of the marriage which possibly means they married before civil registration started in 1864. If this is the case there will be no marriage cert and parish records will be required.

I will double check the civil index...and post back if I find anything.

Since the two known children were born in Laragh, Brockagh, I believe that the  parish for this area, Glendalough, would be the place to start the search. (details on this parish mentioned earlier)  If the marriage is not in this parish the next step is usually to try the adjoining parishes - probably the best bet would be Rathdrum to the south.


Shane

[eyshame]

Thanks for all your help Shane. You know alot about Irish History/research. May i ask if you are Irish and if so where are you? you don't have toanswer of course as i am just curious/nosey, lol. E.

[shanew147]

There are a few female Carton (also Carten & Cartan) marriages in the early 1860s in County Wicklow, but the only one in the right area is a Margaret Carton in 1864.. only Catherine marriage I see is in 1870.. and that's a bit to the north east of the area in the Rathdown registration district. So it does look like the marriage was before 1864...

Since none of the Catholic Wicklow parish marriage records are available online at the moment it looks like the microfilms in the National Library in Dublin is the best chance of finding this.



Shane