Norwood cemetery complete

[screwlooose]

thx Hazel, i'm glad it worked out for you. As i said i will have to post a request for someone to go to the cemetary records office as i live in Australia. It is very frustrating living in another country and having to rely on other people to do work for you. (Mind you the people on this site are the most helpful i have met anywhere).I think the cost for the council to do the lookup is 25 pounds or so an hour. Whilst you dont mind to pay a reasonable amount, i feel that is excessive.
I have said i will pay expences to anyone who helps me, but u just have to be patient. I think it means waiting for summer weather.
Again well done for you, i hope i get a simmilar result.
Duane

[Valda]

Hi

Unfortunately lookups in cemeteries because there are so many in London (as you can see from the help guide) and very few people who are answering such requests on the London and Middlesex and Surrey boards you really have to be as specific as possible because these cemeteries are very large and take some walking around.
So it helps to know as much as possible and to have checked all the electronic sources which are available for this cemetery and what those sources do and don't cover because they are far from comprehensive. It also helps to know there are gravestones there in the first place because most families could not afford them or a marker that lasted, or in many cases the plot in the first place. So these replies supplying further information are aimed at making sure your lookup is as successful as possible.

The London borough charges for searches are high but if Lambeth are charging £25 then they are under their neighbouring London borough charges which average around £35.

The London and Middlesex board is a very busy board and at the very least the responses you have had have helped keep your topic at the top of the board and in the 'public eye' so fingers crossed and you will be lucky and someone who is visiting the cemetery will see the post and reply.


Regards

Valda

[screwlooose]

Thx Valda, i uderstand and appreciate all ur help. U have been the most responsive to all my requests and questions on this board.
Someone in the chat room offered to look for me once as they were going to the Cemeterylast summer, so it never occured to me as to how large the place might be. As i said i will wait to see if i can get someone to do a look up for me. There seems to be some money in the family so i am hoping that there will be a few gravestones around but i understand the fact that there may not be because of cost.
People on this site are some of the most helpful i have ever met so as i said its a matter of waiting my time until someone goes there and they will help me out.
I do appreciate the clarrification of points and some of the difficulties being pointed out to me, as a beginner, i sometimes dive in without knowing all the pitfalls.
Thx again
Duane

[Moonraker55]

I have read through the thread and perhaps I have missed it but West Norwood Cemetery is not the only cemetery covering the 'Norwood' area. If you were in South Norwood, for example, you might well end up in the Croydon cemetery at Mitcham Road or if in Upper Norwood on the Croydon side, then you would well end up in the Streatham Vale cemetery. My grandfather, who died in West Norwood in 1949, was buried at Streatham Vale.

Then there's the problem of purchased plots. My grandmother, when she died in 1992 in Caterham in Surrey, she too was buried in Streatham Vale, since the family had purchased the plot to bury my grandfather in 1949. So, the fact that you die somewhere, particularly in an area as populated as South London, then you might well be buried anywhere depending on a wide range of issues.

regards
John

[Valda]

Hi

I recomend the help guide to London burials on the Rootschat London and Middlesex boards because it lists all the London civic cemeteries and gives links to them as well as giving the opening date of each cemetery which helps to establish whether the burials you are interested in could have been in that particular cemetery. It also states the difficulties involved in trying to track burials in London.


Information on the Lambeth cemeteries taken from the guide

West Norwood Cemetery, Norwood Road, SE27 (1837)
Lambeth Cemetery, Blackshaw Road, SW17 (1854)
Streatham Cemetery, Garratt Lane, SW17 (1893)

and Croydon

Queens Road Cemetery, Croydon (1861) 
Croydon Cemetery, Mitcham Road, Croydon (1897)
Greenlawn Memorial Park Cemetery, Chelsham Road, Warlingham (1938)


The closer to the river Thames the greater the population would be. It was only with the coming of the railways in the 1840s that the suburbs began to expand (as shown by the date of the opening of cemeteries - the first in Croydon in 1861), so most burials at West Norwood at first would probably be people who lived to the north of the cemetery. What are cemeteries now in the London borough of Southwark (Camberwell) would be just as close, as travelling to further placed Surrey cemeteries in Croydon (which became part of Greater London only in 1965 - Lambeth joined the county of London in 1889)


'Suburban expansion was beginning in the south. Brixton, Herne Hill, Clapham, Streatham and Norwood had railway stations and became attractive propositions for the lower middle classes who worked in the City and the West End. In Norwood the population grew in 50 years from 600 to 6000.'


A map showing the Surrey parishes including those that were incorporated into London in 1889 and those that arrived much later in 1965 as well as what remains of Surrey (basically most of those marked in East Surrey in the northern most part eventually joined London either in 1889 or in 1965).

http://www.wsfhs.org/ParishMap.htm


The help guide to London burials on the London and Middlesex boards

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,403485.0.html


Regards

Valda

[Enumerated]

I am in process of transcribing and photographing graves in West Norwood Cemetery and adding them to the FindAGrave website.  If you would would like to post the names and death years of your ancestors I will add them to my list of names to look out for.  Death years are useful because I am getting pretty good at recognising the style of gravestones for different periods, though of course you may not know who was the first person to be buried in the grave, and some graves have three generations of the same family buried together.

If you can get plot and section numbers it would help because otherwise it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack.  As has been said, this is a huge cemetery, and parts of it are very overgrown and inaccessible - I would need a machete to reach some graves

I am going to have to talk to the cemetery office one day about the online database of re-used graves.  It is obviously not stated clearly enough that this database lists re-used graves only, because I have seen this misunderstanding so often.  Of course the office is only open on weekdays and closes quite early.

The map they give you could use some improvement too.  I try to help people who are looking for a grave when I see them, map in hand, trying to locate the relevant section which is not marked on the ground in any way so it is not easy for people who are not familiar with the cemetery.  You need to come early and allow plenty of time if you are trying to find a grave.

West Norwood Cemetery ran out of room in the mid 20th century (that is why they started re-using graves), and many Lambeth residents are now buried in Lambeth Cemetery which is in Tooting (not very convenient for visiting) and which opened in 1854.  There is also Streatham Cemetery, also in Tooting, opened 1893.

Well, let me know if I can help at all (I will be notified of any replies to this thread) - it is much more satisfying to me to document graves that people are actually interested in

Edit: sorry I have repeated things in earlier posts - I couldn't remember everything that had already been said.

[Valda]

Hi Enumerated


I'm afraid your kind offer for other Rootschatters will get lost at the end of this topic. Why not repeat your offer to transcribe/photograph gravestones in West Norwood cemetery on the Surrey and London and Middlesex Lookup offers board, giving the sort of details you have given in this post so requesters understand the difficulties involved in a very large semi overgrown London cemetery. I think you would have to be very specific that you would need a plot number, so some leg work has to be done first and it has been established a plot was actually purchased and that the burial was not in a common grave. 


Regards

Valda
co-moderator L & M and Surrey

[JustinL]

Hello Enumerated,

I was lucky enough to spot your kind offer here.

According to the will of Samuel Williams (one of my ggg-gfs)), the South Metrpolitan Cemetery Company granted him grave no. 6092 on 12 Aug 1858.  He was subsequently buried there after his death on 3 Dec 1860.

I would be very grateful if you would add him to your list.

Would the 'very helpful' staff in the cemetery office be able to confirm the plot and section numbers in their registers?

Thank you.

Justin

[nightnurse51]

I have just found that my great great grandfather George Bullen is buried in Norwood cemetary. The information I got from Ancestry as a burial record. told me he was buried on the 15 sept 1854 which was a great find.
I went on to try and find his wife my great great grandmother mary Bullen who died in 1878 but nothing came up
Didnt realise how big this cemetary is.
I visit Croydon very often as my family come from there. I know many graves in Queens Road and the main Croydon cemetary. when I visit again I will help all I can.
I found Croydon bereavement office in the Mitcham Road cemetary second to none
I knew the date of my relatives death and told her where I thought she lived and with out hesitation told me the grave no and area to find it over the phone. Queens road cemetary is databased,They also continued to tell me that she was in a common grave and I also found that her son and daughter were also interred there.. A bonus of which I didnt know, although the grave had no marker as they were quite poor. the groundsman helped me .
Queens road  cemetary is well looked after site, and with family history in great demand it is a great tribute to Croydon council for the work they do. as well as the local archives.
But be warned burial plots are being dug up after a period of 75 years and if you dont pay a "renta"l fee of 50 to 75 years your rellie is gone forever Because mny rellie is in a common grave thay wanted to "sell " me the plot for well over £1000 pound of which I didnt have the money. for that I was entitiled to put a headstone and further internments.for 8 urns.

I have just found out tonight about the Norwood site and wish I had known before as I live 250 miles away and cant visit at will. I have to make a special journey.
If I ever visit I will also take photos of graves so if any one needs help. It wont be this side of christmas though,