William Giltrap - Teacher

[rawdinae]

So is this just a co-incidence? Maybe. But can you provide a bit more background to the basis of your information, for example, how do you know (what evidence do you have) that William (or John) Giltrap married an Annie Evans, for example?

Hi Gaffy

Thanks for looking at my post:

Working back the way, I am looking at the family of a Henry Giltrap and Deborah Harper as previously stated they first appear on the 1881 Census in Paisley with 5 Children all girls Annie M. 1862; Fanny 1864; Elizabeth 1864; Deborah 1867 and Emily Ellen 1869 all born Ireland.

Statutory Death Records:

Henry Giltrap died in Paisley 20th Apr 1916 aged 80 Parents listed as William Giltrap (School Teacher) and Annie Evans

Deborah Harper died in Pasley9th August 1918 aged 84 parents listed as William Harper ( Shoemaker) and Mavis Davis.

Church Records - Irishgenealogy.ie

Henry Giltrap - Servant Marriage to Deborah Harper 6th May 1856 both of 17 Great Longford St. Parents John Giltrap - Schoolmaster and William Harper - Shoemaker
Witnesses Eliza Giltrap and William Lester

Baptisms:

William Giltrap Birth 23rd May 1859 St Peter Parents Henry and Deborah Giltrap 19 Whitefriar St (later died aged 6months) Fathers Occupation Servant

Elizabeth Giltrap 4th Nov 1864 St Mary - Parents Henry and Deborah Giltrap 79 Dorset St

Family Search.Org

Annie M Giltrap Abt 1862 - Birth not found - on census Scotland
Fanny Giltrap Abt 1862 - Birth not found - on census Scotland
Elizabeth Giltrap Birth 4th november 1864 Dublin - Parents Henry Giltrap and Deborah Harper
Deborah Giltrap 5th August 1867 Dublin - Parents Henry Giltrap and Deborah Harper
Emily Ellen Giltrap Birth 27th February 1869 Dublin - Parents Henry Giltrap and Deborah Harper

All points to correct records in Ireland however John / William ??

[gaffy]

I'm still reeling at the co-incidence of the 1854 County Mayo marriage, given the groom's name, the bride's surname, their occupations and fathers' names and occupations, but co-incidence it remains at this point, for I can see nothing more than that.

If the only source for Henry's father being called William is what an informant provided at the time of his death, then I would be open minded about that, for such information can be notoriously inaccurate and besides that, there is always the possibility the father was William John or John William.

The surname Giltrap isn't common in the all Ireland context but the small numbers overall are not widely dispersed, when you look at Griffiths Valuation and the 1901 and 1911 census returns, besides odds and sods the majority are clustered in counties Carlow, Wicklow and Kildare, with some spread into Wexford and Dublin, the latter probably for economic / work reasons.

Very slim pickings from me, but just to note a couple of marriages where the father of the bride or groom was recorded as John Giltrap, a teacher (can't see any for a teacher father called William Giltrap).  As it happens, they occurred in County Wicklow.

Firstly, Thomas Giltrap, a teacher (son of John Giltrap, a teacher), married Mary A. Giltrap in the Church of Ireland on 30 November 1863, both were from Mullica / Mullycagh, a townland in the civil parish of Hollywood (Lower or Upper I don't know - some of the previous posters on this thread mentioned this townland). Given the recorded age at the time of marriage, Thomas would have been born in 1839. This looks like a possibility for them in 1901 and 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Dunlavin/Toberbeg/1808671/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Dunlavin/Toberbeg/889161/

Secondly, Jane Giltrap, a teacher (daughter of John Giltrap, a teacher)  married Robert Giltrap in the Church of Ireland on 5 May 1870 (Hollywood parish), again both were from Mullica / Mullycagh. A Thomas Giltrap witnessed.  As I said, not much to offer, but at least you know there was a teacher called John Giltrap, very possibly from the Mullica / Mullycagh area, in the first half of the 19th C.  Given that the name Giltrap isn't common and that the teacher occupation should reduce the field, here's hoping you get more replies...

[hasta]

Slim pickings indeed!!
Given that you are having such difficulty moving back from Henry & Deborah Giltrap I'd buy the Civil birth certs of the 3 children (Elizabeth 1864 baptism is online but it says the father's occupation is 'Sexton'?) it will give you some more names to look for - siblings were often sponsors on baptisms. For instance you know from the marriage that Henry's witness was Eliza Giltrap - a possible sister - also addresses will be a great help. There is only one record that I can see that might match this family and it's an odd one.

A Deborah Giltrap of 31 Jervis Street enrolled at the Society of Friends (Quaker) Sunday School 6/04/1879 same day as an Alice & Maria Harper of 4 Frederick Lane.
Cousins perhaps ?

[dathai]

an Alice and Maria Harper
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c841c00565687

1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Montpelier_Hill/1338850/

1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Montpelier_Hill/56824/

[rawdinae]

Thanks Hasta and Dathai,

You're right hasta i was always told if you get stuck with one family look at another to find family connections as you say.

I saw that record stating henrys occupation as Sexton I have seen another where he is listed as Caretaker which is basically the same just a fancy Church name for odd job man.

That is an intersting record for the Sunday school if correct that places the family still in Ireland 1879 maybe famine of 1880 pushed them to move to Scotland as they are on Census of 1881 there.

Harpers names interesting Alice possibly Deboras sister and Maria her mother although I have her mother listed as Mavis I have seen her listed as Maria and Deborah seems to have name one of her daughters Annie/Anna Maria Giltrap.

I have just been supplied another 2 siblings Margaret Giltrap B 25 Jan 1855 Dublin and John Giltrap B 18th Jan 1857. There is a Maragret Giltrap aged 56 Single on the 1911 Census as vistor age matches with above.

Cant find records of above although as previously mentioned there is a John Giltrap Stone Sculptor marriage to a Louisa Levinge.

Margaret seems to fit in other than she poses a further questions who was her mother and was Henry married to a sister of Deborah previously as per record 1854 to Margaret Harper  if so did she die? if that were the case that would clear up the similarity to the to marriage records.

The pickings may at last be starting to join together