JOHN LITTLE, Bottlemaker, Dublin

[little alison]

Thank you again - this is beginning to fall into place.
I'm trying to get organised and put all the details onto Family Record Sheets, takes a while, but I am still a beginner here....

I'm realising that what I should have done (probably) in the first place was to put this in the Common Room, but it was my first post ever, and I didn't know then that it would span so many countries!

I have been sent an extract from the Earlestown Guardian about the death of John Little (One) but will have to OCR it, post later.

[little alison]

The photo has now been dated - as about 1889. Much later than we thought, so it must be John Little's son John who went to South Africa
in about 1996. Pity.
However I have found notes of my uncle Fred's where he says that John (Two) was the one who went to Dublin and made bottles for Guinness. This makes more sense than his father being there.
I am also on the trail of my grandfather's sisters in Dublin.

[MonicaL]

Let us know how you get on Alison  Agree with the picture dating results/ opinions that you have been given in that it is most likely to be John Two, who you know was living in Dublin from 1870 to the point he left for SA.

Monica

[little alison]

I had a concentrated search today for the three sisterswho went to South Africa., and I may - may - have some results.
first, I managed at last to find the birth record that was put on here for Grace Little, using the link that 'shanew' (I think) provided. Then I found other records for Jean and Agnes.

I am not dead sure of this. I have three records like this:
        Jean Little           1883
   Grace Little   1885   
   Agnes Little   1887
All in South Dublin
In the same age order as my father’s tree....

And starting three years after Mary Graham Little was born in 1880 to Isobel.
I think John Little Two married again.
I can't find any record of that, nor a death record for Isabel.

I think these three are my grandfather's halfsisters.

[shanew147]

re the photographer 'Stanley' :

I've gone though the earlier directories checking for a photographer named Stanley and found nothing as a surname, but this is Thom's 1894 :

45 Sackville Street Lower

  Bolger and Co. wine and spirit merchants
  Cusack, Robert J. merchant
  Lauder, Ed. Stanley, photogr.

The usual listing format is surname, first name(s), occupation - so I believe the Stanley is his middle name i.e. Ed. Stanley Lauder. In a separate listing a photographer named  Edmund S. Lauder is shown living in Dublin.

I wonder if the Stanley visible on the photograph is the middle name of one the Lauder Brothers ?

Various Lauder brothers were involved in the photographic business in Dublin, so maybe Edmund included his middle name to help differentiate between them.


Shane

[little alison]

Interesting. Looking at the photo again, I notice that the bottom half of the word 'Dublin' is cut off. Maybe the photographer went under the name of 'Stanley' to distinguish himself, or maybe it did say 'Lauder' underneath? There would then have been room for an address in smaller letters beneath 'Dublin' ?
I'll check with my sister (who scanned it) to see if there is any more, but I doubt it. She knows I want all the details!

[Quaxer]

Following in Shane's footsteps I notice the following from the Irish Times at No.45 Lower Sackville Street

 4/2/1860 (advert) Lauder Bros. -Photographers
 7/12/1863 (Birth) Mr. E.S.Lauder
 8/2/1877 Page 1 (Marriage) Lizzie Rhoda Stanley (dau. of Edmond Stanley Lauder)
 10/3/1892 Page 3 Edmond Stanley Lauder    died 29/11/1891

A small book entitled " Photography in Dublin during the Victorian Era " by Edward Chandler (no ISBN)  has the Lauder frade mark on Page 18 and on Page 19 states that the brothers Edmund and James Lauder had originally come from Scotland and in 1853 had set up a studio in Capel Street.

Some assistance I hope                      Regards   Quaxer

[IMBER]

However I have found notes of my uncle Fred's where he says that John (Two) was the one who went to Dublin and made bottles for Guinness.

This may be of no interest to you whatsoever but for the sake of accuracy he would have been making bottles in which Guinness was sold but not making bottles for the Guinness company.  They didn't bottle their stout.  At that time the chief export bottler was E & J Burke and I see above that one of the census entries seems to provide the link between Burkes and your man.

Imber

[little alison]

Thanks, Imber - this is definitely of interest. From the dates I think this must be John Three, John Two's son born 1868, since John his father left Dublin in 1896 for South Africa.

When this was first posted by ShaneW (on 11 May) I wasn't far enough on to be able to connect it at all with anything I had at the time. I've since found that my uncle's notes were not all accurate and in this case I think he has confused two Johns again.

John Two the father was probably selling bottles to publicans who then filled them with Guinness, from what I find online.
John Three could well have been bottling for Guinness and have been connected with the Hibernian Glass Bottle Works, which is now very helpful.

I have done a search for the Hibernian GBW in a Dublin newspaper available via the library and I found one mention in 1883, but nothing else until 1896 and later. (Possible that it was being planned then, 1883, but I would have to check back.)

I haven't found any connection of John Two to this works, but am still trying to find out if he was at the Ringsend Bottle Works or the Irish Glass Bottle works - connections to both, all works at Ringsend.

I now don't think he remarried (25 May), I think the difficulty was that he joined the Plymouth Brethren, and after that there are no more christening records. I'm now satisfied that the three sisters I was looking for were my grandfather's full sisters.

To go back to the last post, I will investigate E & J Burke and see if there are any helpful dates there re the works.
Thanks again - Alison