from ashby de la zouch to hackney

[scarlettlady]

Hi Gardener ive been suffering from a cold and been offline for a couple of days but thanks for pointing out the Charles Ashby birth on IGI.  I think the records on IGI are only reliable if put on by the IGI other submitters seem to get things quite muddled and it can lead one astray.  I know there was an very early Charles Ashby born 1754/56 parents are given as another Charles Ashby and Mary Ann Sears at St Botolphs without Aldersgate.

Strangely enough ive found a resident list of St Botolphs for 1638 that lists a Mary Ashby as living there and paying rates of 6 (£) ? it seems to me maybe charles ashby born 1754 may have had family in that area and the records submitted on igi are not entirely accurate it really amounts to checking St Botolphs without Aldersgate records for this marriage and baptismal record of early Charles Ashbys, what do you suggest i may be entirely wrong though!

many  thanks  though for your thoughts will mull them over from my sickbed..... snuffle snuffle...

[Gardener]

Hi
Hope your cold is getting better! I've had a sprained thumb so not been doing much on the computer either

I've been dipping in and out of you posts and you certainly have a knot to untie what with name changes and so on. I know you have a ton of information now so probably anything I say can be discounted easily, but here goes just in case even one idea helps.

1. I just can't see that a Charles Ashby married Mary Ann Sears in 1852 at St Botolph (extracted record IGI) and that another entirely different couple with the same names married 100 years earlier (your records). But if you have seen the entry in the records then I must be wrong. From this distance it looks as though the marriage you have for Charles to Mary Ann, and the baptism of their son Charles have been mis-recorded a 100 years too early.

2. I don't understand this bit:
"The earliest Charles Ashby is the one whose birth record I need to trace to establish his parentage:   (his father was thought to be a Richard Ashby of Eagle Street, Picadilly, London, died 1789 aged 60 but we cannot find a death record anywhere for Richard Ashby although I have managed to find him mentioned by name and address in the rate books for Westminster for the year 1780,
so I know he existed but why no death records anywhere?)  He is reputed to be a son of the Ashby of Harefield line who converted to catholicism changed his name from Robert to Richard  Ashby and died in 1767 without issue ie was dead to his family for converting but secretely married and had issue but was cut of of his fathers will anyway for converting to catholicism and  his father Robert Ashby senior left everything to his daughter Elizabeth."

I can't quite work out who died when. The NatArchives has wills:

1767 Robert Ashby of Custom House London
1769 Robert Ashby of Harefield

then there is a record  ACC/85/343  15 June 1762
which talks of Robert Ashby snr of Harefield and Robert Ashby jnr of Custom House so are the two wills for father and son? Did the son Robert die in 1767 before is father or are these just probate dates so his father died first but not probated until after?

You said somewhere that Edward Ashby said his grandfather "on fathers side was an unbeneficed clergyman called Richard". I can't mesh that with the idea of Robert Ashby converting to Catholicism and changing his name to Richard.

3. I noticed that you give the marriage for Edward Ashby to Elizabeth Eyre at Well Street Chapel in 1813. It also took place 26 April 1813 at Saint Benet Fink, London (IGI), I think it needed to be in a parish church to be legal. Does that entry have any details different to the chapel one? I doubt it but you never know!

4. Very interesting family you have! I found some stuff about Elizabeth Eyre's father - you probably have it already http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22714
I wondered if Charles left everything to his 2nd wife because Edward was financially settled? But perhaps he was miffed if he had become a dissenter.

5. Edward's brother Francis Jukes Ashby - do you know where the Jukes comes from?

Not helping am I? This is my 3rd attempt to post something sensible so I will post it, sensible or not!

[scarlettlady]

Hi Gardner, sorry ive been offline for a while with half term etc.  I actually went to Hackney St John at Hackney and couldnt find a single Ashby grave but ive noticed a rather interesting amount of a line of Ashbys coming out of Hackeny starting around 1822 so i think ill start by tracing them to where they originated and that maybe give me a clue as to whether they are an older Hackney family or they just sprung up in that borough in 1822 from nowhere? any more ideas as ive run out of steam on this one erm......

[scarlettlady]

As a surprise part of my family tree  has been uncoverd, im trying to trace my great great great grandfather on my fathers side who was mentioned in two census on ancestry in the last  one of  1861 he was living in Bath Somerset Uk aged 66  he died in 1866 in Dover and his birthplace is given as East Bank West Indies  He was a retired Major his wife was Irish  Anne Bowles and they married in Dublin in 1811 when she was 17 then i think went abroad to the West Indies and Noia Scotia where they had a son Joseph G Robinson born in 1821 Novia Scotia and a daughter Anne G Robinson born 1824 Berbice and later another son Barnes Slyfield Robinson born in Dublin 1834.  His daughter Anne G Robinson is listed in the Regimental Birth Index 1824 vol 1077 page 9 her fathers regiment is the 60th ? but 60th what regiment and was he british or west indian im confused....any help or suggestions i can find the robinson family history on ancestry but the record is private.   

[Gardener]

Hi
That sounds  a good plan to try and trace back the one line of Ashbys from hackney. How is it going?

You might do better to post the other query on a new thread. Either here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,421.0.html
or here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,300.0.html

If you could sort out which regiment Robinson snr was in then you might be able to see which countries they served in.
I expect he was British even if he was born in the West Indies. Do you know what the "G" in the children's names stands for? And Barnes Slyfield seems a very unusual name. Perhaps these are surnames as first names and may lead to an earlier generation?

[scarlettlady]

hi thanks for replying to my tangly knot.

Joseph Robinsons regiment seems to have been the 60th Royal American Regiment
I have followed his father? and his progress in the army since 1814 it seems they were posted to Berbice which is in Guyana and the West Indies for most of their careers.  Joseph's children were born in Berbice and Nova Scotia which is also where this regiment was also posted.  I traced him to Bath Somerset in 1861 he died five years later 71 in Cheshire I think.

[scarlettlady]

How do i trace births in this regiment in Guyana in 1796 birthplace is given as East Bank Guyana.

[scarlettlady]

As I have just found the G in the childrens names stands for George in the grandson's name and Georgina in his daughter Anne's name.  George Robinson is mentioned several times as is a John and a James in an old online book of the 60th regiments history and the ranks of its various officers.  This book also lists when the particular battalions of  this regiment where posted,  when and for how long.   I have discovered that the name Slyfield,  Joseph Robinson Senior  gave one his son Barnes  as a second name belonged to a Major Stephen Slyfield active in the 60th Royal American Regiment in the 6th battalion which saw action in various places amongst them Fort Wainright in the 1820's.  The place where Joseph Robinson died seems to have been Cheshire in the UK in 1866.

Im trying to think how can all this help me trace Joseph Robinsons origins as his father was also born in the West Indies in around 1778 and was listed as an Ensign in the 60th royal american regiments history which means he was not British.  I sure there's an easier way to unravel their original origins.....

[Gardener]

Have you checked the GRO regimental birth indices? They start at 1761 and are on http://www.findmypast.co.uk/MilitaryChooseSearchType.jsp
I don't know if you would have any luck there. Some births were registered by the British Consul too.
Start a post in the right section of Rootschat, where the experts hang out, and link it to this one. Just ask for help finding the birth of Joseph Robinson around 1778, in the West Indies, connection to the army.