Durness Parish Register

[Allancathel]

Thanks Ian

I am researching various Sutherland families including Mackay connections to Pope families who were in Durness and Scourie.  Researchers into the Mackay families from the US who carried out much research in Durness and say they spoke to locals have come up with a name for an ancestor which is at variance with another source.  Part of two of the OPR entries of importance are as follows though there are a few others similarly worded;-

Neil MacKay alias MacEmish

Ann Mackay alias nin Neilmacemish

The interpretation made by the US researcher is that this is;

 Neil son of Thomas

Ann daughter of Neil who is son of Thomas

The other interpretation I have received from a couple of members of the Melvich Gaelic Choir and in a short passing conversation with Highland Genealogist, Alistair Macleod is;

Neil son of James

Ann daughter of Neil who is the son of James.

There may, of course, be other interpretations!

For my purpose Thomas would best but I am inclined to James and accuracy is more important than convenience!

Help appreciated.

Allan


"Tomas"  (Toe-mass) is the Gaelic for Thomas. In the genetive case, which it takes following mac, i.e. son of, it is aspirated and an "i" added after the last vowel to give "Thomais", roughly 'hoe-meesh'. Similarly, Seumas (James) becomes Sheumais, roughly Hae-meesh in the genetive case.

The aliases in the Durness PR are given in imitated  or phonetic Gaelic and I have not noted many MacEmish listings but I would say it is more likely to be son of James than son of Thomas.

Can you give more information?e.g. the date of the entry. The aliases sometimes varied from one entry to the next and alaso it may be possible to find the father in an earlier registration.

IAN

[Allancathel]

Jess Pope, born in Wick as Janet and whose mother (Ann Pope MS
Sutherland) died in Thurso, is listed in the 1861 census as a 4 year
old Boarder with George McKay and Janet McKay and their family
Alexandrina (20), Hectorina (17), Jean (12), Alexander (10) and Effe
(7). Much searching under Pope and McKay and variations of her
forename has failed to find Jess. I think her father went to
Australia soon after her birth and the death of her mother, his wife,
and died there in 1863. I also suspect that Janet McKay from Brora
might be the aunt or close relative of Jess (Janet).
Can anyone help me with this family? Not just Jess as there may be a
clue in what the others did and who they married as to what happened
to Jess.

Allan

[ellenbrora]

Emily - don't know if this confuses things further (!), but there is an entry in the Monumental Inscriptions for Sutherland, Balnakeil (which is the Durness burial ground) which may be of interest.

Stone 99.

"Angus Sutherland ground officer Durness 7.11.1827  45, w Bar N' Rob Sutherland 20.4.1872  91  , gs Ken F Sutherland 7.12.1862  10, ggs And McKay  3. 1900  7 months  , ed s Robt"

My interpretation of this is

Alexander Sutherland, Ground Officer, Durness, died 07/11/1827, age 45 yrs.  His wife Barbara, daughter of Robert, Sutherland died 20/04/1872, age 91 yrs. His grandson Kenneth F Sutherland died 07/12/1862 aged 10 yrs. His great grandson Andrew McKay died March 1900 age 7 months. Stone erected by (Alexander's) son, Robert.

(Please anyone with more knowledge than I, feel free to correct any errors!)

Hope this is of some help.

If they turn out to be your family, I have photos of the burial ground, which is right on the coast, a lovely, windswept place with a stunning view out over the sea. My husband has ancestors buried there, who are also Sutherlands - although I don't see a connection at this stage.

Kind Regards

Ellen.

Added later:  Sorry Emily, just noticed that you have already had this info on another thread and discounted them.

[KateW]

Hi Andy,
I have seen your offer to look up records for Durness and wondered if you could look some up for me? My husband's ancestors came from Durness. 
We would appreciate any info about William Mackay and his daughter Mary b. about 1762, Clashneash, Durness who married Donald Ross in Durness. Their daughter was Ann Ross chr. 10.8.1787 Durness and married Donald Whyte 5.2.1808 Durness.    If you can tell me anything at all about Mary, her father William and even who her mother was, it would be great.

On the marriage record for Durness, Mary Mackay's name on the marriage entry reads "Mary Mackay alias Nin uillam Macnish / macemish".  (or similar)
Many thanks,

Kate Whyte.

[MaggieAnne]

Hi Andy:

My g/grandmother was Isabella (or Isobel) Mackay (DOB 24.08.1840) who married Alexander Holm Mackenzie (DOB 09.11.1846) on 3 Feb 1871 in Cromarty, R&C.
 

My grandfather, Donald Alexander Mackenzie (DOB 24 July 1873), author & poet, had a foreword written in one of his books by Professor W J Watson, LL.D. D.Litt.Celt. where it states …”Donald A Mackenzie was born in the ancient burgh of Cromarty to A H Mackenzie and Isobel Mackay, a descendant of the famous Sutherland Gaelic poet, Rob Donn"….  (I quote this as I would have thought Professor Watson would have researched this fact).
 
I have searched and searched and cannot make the connection where Isobel Mackay links with Rob Donn Mackay.  Her parents William Mackay married Janet Mackenzie on 20 November 1819 in Cromarty and she had 2 sisters Grace & Justina.

With all these Mackays and Mackenzies marrying each other, no wonder I am confused!!!!!!!

Please help Andy - I would so appreciate any assistance.

Many thanks
Maggie Mackenzie-Goodman 
From not so sunny Australia

 

 

[IanB]

Maggie,

Rob Donn was my 5xGG through Christina Donn Calder who married, as her second husband, John ( macUilliam macUisdean macEachain ruaidh) Morrison.

I have read quite a lot about Rob Donn, my best source being perhaps "The World of Rob Donn" by Ian Grimble. I do not know for sure how many children he had but I have traced the descendants of five of them for one generation. At least two of his daughters married Mackays (hardly surprising) but I cannot find a William mackay of approx. the right age among their off-spring . There were two Isobel Mackays among his descendants but their father's name was not William.

One thing I did notice from the information you posted is that William Mackay and Janet Mackenzie seem to have been married for over 20 years before they had any children, which seems unusual. Are you sure that the 1819 marriage was that of the correct couple, i.e. could it have been another William mackay and Janet Mackenzie? The marriage date is important for estimating the DOB of William Mackay.

Ian Morrison

[IanB]

Maggie,

Subsequent to my previous post, I took a look at the IGI and notice that William Mackay and Janet Mackenzie appear to have had 9 children, as follows:
Grace   13 Mar 1821;  Ann 9 Feb 1824;  Alexander  13 Mar 1826; Christina 25 Aug 1828; William  3 Apr 1831; Janet Ann  5 Jun 1834; John Mackenzie  21 Jan 1838; Isabella  27 Jul 1840; Justina Anderson Mackenzie  23 Feb 1844. Therefore, there is no reason to doubt the marriage date.

Ian

[MaggieAnne]

Ian - that's fantastic.  I only had 3 children, which was puzzling, as it was Grace 1821, Isabella 1840 and Justina 1844 - 20 years almost between 1821 and 1840, so your news is wonderful, as it now fits in. 
Now as I said in my original email, supposedly there is a connection to Rob Donn, but where??  I have Rob Donn (1714-1778) marrying when? Janet Calder (1716-1777) - the only children I have listed for them are Isobel Donn Calder, Christian Donn Calder, John Donn Mackay Calder (died bet 1777-1798 while in army service in India & Ceylon) and George Calder b.1769.  I do not have DOB for Isobel, Christian & John. 
Is there any chance you can put me on the right road please Ian, as reading through the emails listed, you are very knowledgeable.
Thank you for your interest, time and effort - very much appreciated.
Sincerely Maggie   

[IanB]

Maggie,

As you may know, there is some controversy regarding Rob Donn's correct surname. The Mackays claim he is one of them and he is often referred to as Rob Donn Mackay. However, in the Parish Register, which only began in 1764, he and his relatives are recorded as Down (i.e. Donn) or Calder. The only one of his children that I could see in the register is George, born in 1769, and the father is shown as "Rob Down, poet".

The transcription of the register by Hew Morrison, of which several members have photcopies and some have a digital copy, ends in 1814 - for reasons that are not clear, since it would have continued to be maintained until 1855.

The other children of his for which I have partial records are Christiina (or Christian); James; John; Isobel; and Mary. I have guessed at their dates of birth, based on marriage dates or birth dates of their children. I believe he did have other children but they are not recorded in any books that I have.

I think it is only natural for us to wish to be proud of our ancestors and often there are traditions passed down that turn out to be incorrect. However,I'm not suggesting that yours is, because there are some children of Rob Donn not accounted for and you may very well be related. If you ever do confirm this or manage to discover more about Rob Donn's descendants, please let me know.

BTW, Rob Donn's wife was Janet Mackay.

Ian