Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?

[Parmesan]

So here is the response to my email to John Tanner.  Funny I was only wondering today when I would get a reply!

Following on from my recent communication, I have now carried out further enquiries and would be grateful if you could note the following.
The additional charge of £1:00 goes towards the additional services associated with producing and despatching a copy certificate and only applies where the application is not made in person. I feel the important point to stress is that should an application be made in person then the standard fee of £9:00 does apply. As I am sure you can appreciate there are additional services required to deal with non personal applications including the provision of stationary, the despatching of the documentation and also the receipting and processing of the payment.
I have carried out enquiries across a range of Registrars Services, not just within the Greater Manchester area but also the North West region and I can confirm that there are a number of service providers among those questioned, that have introduced an additional charge for the provision of a copy certificate.
I also arranged for a colleague to discuss the matter further with a representative from the GRO who have confirmed they do no not have any concerns relating to our charging structure as it is a matter for each individual local authority.
I accept that there are organisations who do not choose to add an additional charge for the provision of a copy certificate however as the GRO have outlined, this is for each individual authority to decide whether or not to do so. I hope that I have outlined the rationale behind why Salford make an additional charge in cases where the application is not made in person.
I trust this is to your satisfaction, however should you wish to discuss the matter further then please do not hesitate to contact me using the details outlined below.

I guess I'll just have to suck it up! 

[Guy Etchells]

So here is the response to my email to John Tanner.  Funny I was only wondering today when I would get a reply!

Following on from my recent communication, I have now carried out further enquiries and would be grateful if you could note the following.
The additional charge of £1:00 goes towards the additional services associated with producing and despatching a copy certificate and only applies where the application is not made in person. I feel the important point to stress is that should an application be made in person then the standard fee of £9:00 does apply. As I am sure you can appreciate there are additional services required to deal with non personal applications including the provision of stationary, the despatching of the documentation and also the receipting and processing of the payment.

I gather from this that all applications in person are supplied immediately.
I also assume that no receipt is given for any money handed over.
I also assume the money or debit card payment is not processed, ie. it is not accepted, put in the till or accounted for.
Who does John Tanner think he is kidding?
These are not additional services but services carried out with every transaction.

I have carried out enquiries across a range of Registrars Services, not just within the Greater Manchester area but also the North West region and I can confirm that there are a number of service providers among those questioned, that have introduced an additional charge for the provision of a copy certificate.

So because other registrars are overcharging it is acceptable for Salford to overcharge. Sound logic.

I also arranged for a colleague to discuss the matter further with a representative from the GRO who have confirmed they do no not have any concerns relating to our charging structure as it is a matter for each individual local authority.

So who did your colleague talk to the cloakroom attendant or the Registrar General?
How many times in the last few years have the GRO been forced to admit they did not understand the legislation and they got it wrong?
Cheers
Guy

I accept that there are organisations who do not choose to add an additional charge for the provision of a copy certificate however as the GRO have outlined, this is for each individual authority to decide whether or not to do so. I hope that I have outlined the rationale behind why Salford make an additional charge in cases where the application is not made in person.
I trust this is to your satisfaction, however should you wish to discuss the matter further then please do not hesitate to contact me using the details outlined below.[/color]

I guess I'll just have to suck it up! 

[acorngen]

Guy,

That was my point that I made to the ombudsman.  Mr Tanner had already posted that same response to myself and  it is this I used when contacting the pmbudsman

[Parmesan]

Okay, I'm not going to suck it up 

Guy, you are absolutely right (of course!)  Unless I get my cert there and then when I turn up in person (doubtful)  they will have to go through the same processes.

I have replied to John Tanner pointing this out.

I couldn't help myself!

[dawnsh]

It may not be general knowledge that on the 1st December 2007 all Registrars and Superintendent Registrars in England and Wales became employees of the local authorities providing the registration service, having been Statutory Officers with no legal employment status. This momentous change came about as a result of the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 following many decades of campaigning by the trade unions that represented registration officers in England and Wales, The Society of Registration Officers and UNISON.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_office

meaning they were no longer appointed by the General Register Office.

That is the reason there are 2 certificate costs, £9 and £9.25 and why the Local Authorities can impose an administration charge on top of the £9 fee.

Dawn

The Local authorities also undertook a review at the same time as the GRO and decided that they could charge £9.

[acorngen]

Dawn,

The fee for certificates is not set down by the local authorities it is set down in statute therefore they couldnt decide to charge £9.  Now what Salford are charging the extra pound for is what they were doing before the raise for nothing and claiming this is to cover the cost of opening an envelope and sealing an envelope.  The GRO fee is 9.25 to cover the 25p charge they get from their postal supplier.  They dont charge for opening and sealing envelopes orproducing a receipt. 

[Parmesan]

Following on from Guy's comments regarding the response I got from John Tanner at Salford I decided to email him again with more queries viz;

"Dear Mr Tanner

Thank you for your response to my queries.  I am, however, a little confused by your first point viz;

'The additional charge of £1:00 goes towards the additional services associated with producing and despatching a copy certificate and only applies where the application is not made in person. I feel the important point to stress is that should an application be made in person then the standard fee of £9:00 does apply. As I am sure you can appreciate there are additional services required to deal with non personal applications including the provision of stationary, the despatching of the documentation and also the receipting and processing of the payment.'

From this I assume that if I turn up in person I will get my certificate straight away, there and then, the same day?  Otherwise you would have to include 'the provision of stationary, and the despatching of the documentation'. 

Further, whether I turn up in person or make a postal application you would have to process the payment and search for the certificate in exactly the same way.  I fail to see how the two are different.

I hope you can clarify these points for me"

here is the response to that

"Thank you for your recent email, the content of which I have noted.
In answering your question about personal applications, if an individual is making a priority application and is prepared to wait and take the certificate away with them, then as outlined on our website in addition to the standard fee, a priority application fee is payable of £5.
However if an application is made in person, and the individual making the request is unable to wait or could not afford the priority application fee then in those circumstances as a gesture of goodwill the £1:00 discretionary fee is not requested.  The application is dealt with usually within 2 working days and the customer has the option of it being posted out second class or returning to the office to collect it.
I hope you appreciate that we are trying to be as fair as possible to residents of the city and while I accept that some of the costs incurred are similar to that of a postal application I do feel however that if an individual has travelled to the Registrars office to request a copy certificate in person, then reserving the right to not charge the discretionary fee in these circumstances is deemed to be a fair and equitable approach to take.
I hope that this now resolves that matter.
Regards
John Tanner"