Author Topic: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?  (Read 51990 times)

Offline Parmesan

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,893
  • Dad 1921-2015
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #144 on: Monday 26 July 10 20:32 BST (UK) »
Bravo!
Paternal: Staffordshire, Shropshire, Lancashire, Cheshire, Durham, Wales, Arrondissements Oudenaarde and Gent, Belgium, -  - Maternal: Cheshire, Lancashire, Ireland

Offline GrahamH

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • www.gjh.me.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #145 on: Tuesday 27 July 10 07:25 BST (UK) »
It's a point of law I want clarifying, so yes, its important.
That is the important point to me as well. Where a duty is imposed by law, whether that be on an individual, a public sector body or a private company, then that duty must be complied with. Hopefully Parmesan's request to the GRO will establish the extent of the duty in this case.

What will definitely happen in future though, given the current economic problems, is that services provided by the public sector which are discretionary will be scaled back and/or the charge for them will be increased - in exactly the same way that private sector organisations react to similar circumstances.

Graham

Offline midmum

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #146 on: Tuesday 27 July 10 09:35 BST (UK) »
"what is a teensy bit extra to you is not necessarily for someone else especially if they are sending for several certificates"
I am the sole breadwinner for my family so money isn't exactly flush but I recognise that a certificate is a luxury for my  hobby and that  non essential items come at a price.

"Whether it matters or not depends on whether you value access to records or not."
I do value access to records and take part in many activities to preserve them.
This isn't the issue here because we have access to them.

"In this life one has to fight for ones rights otherwise they get eroded and eventually the right is withdrawn completely"

Exactly but some things come at a cost. Not everything is free of charge. In the current economic climate it is not unreasonable to pay a bit more. If the number of registrations goes down in Salford it may be that we lose even more of the service in Salford and will have to pay even more for certificate copies.


Fighting to keep the maternity and neonatal unit open in Salford ;D
Leics: Edlin, Isam, Wright, Wesson
Notts: Smith, Hughes.
Lancs: Dobbin, Rowlinson, Marr, Povall, Hall, Halliwell
Berks/ Sussex: Dearlove, Carter, Marchant.
census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Parmesan

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,893
  • Dad 1921-2015
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #147 on: Tuesday 27 July 10 12:24 BST (UK) »
reply to my email

"Your e-mail has been forwarded to our Local Government Support section for reply."
Paternal: Staffordshire, Shropshire, Lancashire, Cheshire, Durham, Wales, Arrondissements Oudenaarde and Gent, Belgium, -  - Maternal: Cheshire, Lancashire, Ireland


Offline Guy Etchells

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,632
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #148 on: Tuesday 27 July 10 14:34 BST (UK) »

Exactly but some things come at a cost. Not everything is free of charge. In the current economic climate it is not unreasonable to pay a bit more. If the number of registrations goes down in Salford it may be that we lose even more of the service in Salford and will have to pay even more for certificate copies.


No one has mentioned free access.
The cost of providing certificates is examined annually and the fee set. The fee has been recently increased due in part to the present economic crisis.
Not content with receiving the statutory fee Salford want to add a further charge.
It is that additional charge that is wrong as it is specifically exempted from being levied on statutory duty.

People of Salford will continue to have children, get married and die in Salford whether the maternity and neonatal unit remains open or is closed.
The fee one pays for the registrations does not depend on numbers but is set nationally by statutory instrument.

In fact it could be argued that there could be more deaths registered if the unit was closed, which would rather defeat your claim.
For the record I hope you are successful in keeping it open.
Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

Offline acorngen

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,260
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #149 on: Wednesday 28 July 10 04:51 BST (UK) »
I do not see what the difference is to me sending a cheque for £9 and asking for a cert from their indexes or attending the office.  I always send a Stamped Addressed Envelope so there are no costs incurred there for the office.  They have outgoing mail anyway so there is no added work there.  All in all they would be charging me a pound for licking an envelope.

As for the legality of this charge I am split between both Guy's arguments and Graham's.  However that said in the response Parmesan and I received they said the was agreed across the whole of Greater Manchester yet they as far as I can tell are the only one charging such.

Rob
WYATT, COX, STRATTON, all from south Derbyshire and the STS, LEI border Burns Fellows Gough Wilks from STS in particular Black Country and now heading into SOP

Offline Parmesan

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,893
  • Dad 1921-2015
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #150 on: Wednesday 28 July 10 17:06 BST (UK) »
Well I had a bit of a lapse and forgot to mention in my email to the GRO that I had already contacted Salford  ::)  but anyway here is their reply.  :)

"Thank you for your email of 25 July.
 
Fees for certificates issued by superintendent registrars and registrars are set by statute (the Marriage Act 1949 and the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1953) and our view, as the General Register Office, is that registration officers have no power to make an administrative charge for providing this service. Only where the local authority provides an additional, discretionary service, is it able to charge a supplementary fee (to recover the cost) under the powers available to it under the Local Government Act 2003.  It is of course for each local authority to satisfy itself that it has the powers to do so in specific circumstances.
 
As your enquiry is about fees issued by Salford registration service it is open to you to raise this matter with the Proper Officer for Registration Matters at Salford Council.  Contact details are:-
 
John Tanner, Assistant Director of Customer Services, Customer and Support Services, Law and Administration Division, Salford Metropolitan Borough Council, Civic Centre, Chorley Road, Swinton M27 5DA"
Paternal: Staffordshire, Shropshire, Lancashire, Cheshire, Durham, Wales, Arrondissements Oudenaarde and Gent, Belgium, -  - Maternal: Cheshire, Lancashire, Ireland

Offline Parmesan

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,893
  • Dad 1921-2015
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #151 on: Wednesday 28 July 10 17:08 BST (UK) »
I suppose I should now email write to this chap with copies of emails from Salford and GRO?

I'm not very good at this sort of thing  :(
Paternal: Staffordshire, Shropshire, Lancashire, Cheshire, Durham, Wales, Arrondissements Oudenaarde and Gent, Belgium, -  - Maternal: Cheshire, Lancashire, Ireland

Offline GrahamH

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • www.gjh.me.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Salford Council are having a laugh aren't they?
« Reply #152 on: Wednesday 28 July 10 18:49 BST (UK) »
Disappointing reply from the GRO in that they do not say one way or the other whether they view responding to applications not made in person as discretionary or not.

If I were you, given that Salford Council have already said that they do view responding to applications not made in person as discretionary, I should contact the GRO again (the person who sent the reply), tell them what Salford have said, and ask them for a straight answer as to whether or not they agree with Salford in these circumstances.

If the GRO agree with Salford's position then that would seem to be an end to the matter. However, I suspect that they will throw the ball back by repeating the comment "It is of course for each local authority to satisfy itself that it has the powers to do so in specific circumstances".

If the response is the latter, or one disagreeing with Salford, you may wish to e-mail (rather than write to) John Tanner to ask for explicit details of why the service is discretionary. His contact details are on the Salford web site at http://www.salford.gov.uk/customerservices.htm

Graham