SHERMAN - a dilemma

[Lal]

I finally got them (using ancestry)  in 1841 by widening Thomas' birth date to allow for the rounding down of birth dates to the nearest 5. eg Thomas in 1851 was 45 so should have been 35 in 1841 but allowing for a difference in the dates when the censuses were done he could have been 34 in 1841. So took his age back to 30 + or - 2.
Not all enumerators rounded down the ages but some did it as they were supposed to.
As for the 1851 and the name Sherrow (FindMyPast didn't give it as an alternative) I left the surname out of the search boxes altogether and used the maiden name of a child only, with Thomas as father. I left Ellen out of it because she may have been recorded as Ellen or Helen.
 I used Sher* in the surname box but nothing showed and this can happen because sometimes the sites have a hissy fit and just decide they aren't going to show what you are looking for.

Thomas and Ellen didn't go that far in their travels. Aughton is 2.45 miles SW of Ormskirk and Burscough is 3.4 miles NE. Scarisbrook is 4.3 miles NW.
Rufford and Halsall very close to Ormskirk also.
It makes things a lot easier when searching that they didn't move around a lot and were precise as to where their children were born.

Margaret born 1832 doesn't appear on any census with the family and no death for her on FreeBMD. Did she die before 1837 and therefore no registration of death for her?

Yes, I'm thinking Margaret maybe did die, I need to scour parish records again for her. It makes me wonder what sort of house they lived in at Snape (now Snape Green, and where I spent the first 8 years of my life!) if so many little ones died while living there.

I know these villages aren't very far apart, but compared to the rest of my family, they were well travelled! I'm hoping I can get a bit further into whether Thomas had any brothers as I've found a lot of Shermans on the parish records and my father is friends with one.

I've been using Genes Reunited as I have some credits I need to use up on there before I commit to joining a site with a full membership - and there isn't much chance to try different naming options on their search

[crisane]

Marriage 22 Nov 1830 St Thomas, Melling, Lancashire, England
Thomas Shearman - (X), of this Parish
Ellen Rimmer - (X), of this Parish
    Witness: Charles Sherman; Thomas Bolton
    Married by Banns by: Jeremiah Barnes Curate
    Register: Marriages 1813 - 1837, Page 63, Entry 187
    Source: LDS Film 1849660

If this is your Thomas Sherman marrying Ellen Rimmer then the witness Charles Sherman  could be his brother.
Melling is in the right area.

[Lal]

Yes, I'm pretty sure this is the couple! I found this one on lan-opc.org (fabulous resource).

If they were born in Rufford and Halsall respectively, then I'd imagine they had both moved to work in Melling and moved back to live in Scarisbrick quite quickly after marriage. The marriage was in November 1830 and the baptism of William in January 1831. I wouldn't think it was a 'marriage under licence' outside their own parishes as it says they were married by banns? Would that be correct?

I've also found extensive records for a Charles Sherman and his own family.

[crisane]

To be absolutely sure that you are following the correct line you really do need to buy a birth certificate for one of Thomas and Ellen/Helen's children born after 1837.
I am not well up on marriage by licence or banns so won't put in my tuppence worth. You could read the history of banns and marriages  here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_licence

[Lal]

To be absolutely sure that you are following the correct line you really do need to buy a birth certificate for one of Thomas and Ellen/Helen's children born after 1837.
I am not well up on marriage by licence or banns so won't put in my tuppence worth. You could read the history of banns and marriages  here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_licence

My mother thinks she has one of these, luckily, so I'll be asking her for a look at that. We also know that Ellen Sherman/Shearman (the names are often transcribed differently), daughter of Thomas, was the wife of William Leatherbarrow, and mother of James, Robert, Jane, Thomas and William. I've taken care with the Leatherbarrows as I know there are a few 'lines', but this one, even though it came to live in Scarisbrick, was strongly associated with St Cuthberts in Halsall as it was closer than St Marks. Shermans are another line to be careful with, as there are a few, and we know the two families have crossed genes a few times!

I hope that talk of parishes means something! Are you or any of yours from the area if that's not too many questions?

I have now invested in a site membership so I can use the census records more widely too

[crisane]

Hi Lal
I'm a Bolton lass but left in 1961 for NZ but have been in OZ since 1963.
I get just as bewildered as the next person by the parishes and movements of county boundary lines.
Now you have a site sub your family will know where to find you day and night!
Good luck with it.

[saddles]

I take it you have the parish information for your Sherman/Rimmer, you see them at

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html

Example.....
Marriage: 22 Nov 1830 St Thomas, Melling, Lancashire, England
Thomas Shearman - (X), of this Parish
Ellen Rimmer - (X), of this Parish
    Witness: Charles Sherman; Thomas Bolton
    Married by Banns by: Jeremiah Barnes Curate
    Register: Marriages 1813 - 1837, Page 63, Entry 187
    Source: LDS Film 1849660

Threcent electoral rolls show no Sherman in the Carnforth area but there
are 3 Rimmer [family/individual].....PM me for details if required.

Mike.

Mike.

[plimmerian]

Hi

I am researching SHERMAN for my friend (PYE) and have found them recorded as SHERMAN / SHARMAN / SHERMON / SHORMAN / SHORMON!

His connection is via John BENSON who married Alice SHERMAN at St Mark's, Scarisbrick in 1871.

Her father appears to be Charles SHERMAN but from census details he doesn't appear to know where he was born:

(in brief)

1881 - Southport Road, Scarisbrick
as SHERMAN
Charles aged 80 born Bosworth, Lancs
Margaret wf aged 75 b. North Meols

1871 - 13 Southport Road, Scarisbrick
as SHORMON
Charles aged 73 born Leicestershire, not known
Margaret aged 64 b. Croston

1861 - Ormskirk Road, Scarisbrick
as SHERMAN
Charles aged 65 b. Leicestershire
Margaret aged 54 b. North Meols
Alice as Ellen aged 19 b. Scarisbrick

1851 - ? Scarisbrick
as SHERMAN
Charles aged 50 b. Cheshire
Margaret aged 44 b. ? Lancashire
Alice aged 8 b. Scarisbrick

1841 - Southport Road, Scarisbrick
as SHORMAN
Charles aged 35 b. Lancashire - yes
Margaret aged 35 b. Lancashire - yes   

found a marriage of Charles SHERMAN to Margaret CROPPER in 1828 at St Peter & St Paul, Ormskirk both of Ormskirk Parish.

other off-spring of Charles appear to be:

Mary b. c1829, m. c1848 to James CAVE (found as CARR / CARL / CARE / CAVEY) (later DARWEN / DARWIN)

Henry b. c1834, m. c1879 to Mary COOPER
(so far only found a child, Charles SHERMAN b. c 1880, Scarisbrick)

Elizabeth b. c1849, m. 1871 to Thomas ABRAM

best wishes,
Ian.

[Lal]

Thanks for posting that - I'll be pursuing some more on my Shermans next week and I'm sure this Charles is in some way related to the Shermans in my tree owing to that parish record which has Charles as a witness at the wedding of Thomas Sherman.

I've some more possible links to/descendants of Charles on my notes which I'll post up as soon as I can!