St George in the East

[Valda]

Hi

If that was the case for the later Vernezobres you would still expect them to show on the IGI and/or BMD Non-parochial registers

http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/

but they aren't so its likely David John or whoever Madeline's father was, was baptising their children in Church of England churches but not if the IGI has full coverage of St George in the East, St George in the East, despite Madeline and Hannah Amelia (circa 1815 so in theory the Ancestry indexed registers as well) giving that parish as their birthplace.


1851 census HO107 1530 folio 324
9 King William Street St Nicholas Acorns City of London
Richard Coote 48 Head Married House Porter Marylebone Middlesex
Madilaine H Coote 48 Wife Married Assisting St George in the East
Cecelia Coote 18 Daughter Assisting Shoreditch Middlesex
Madilaine K Coote 9 Daughter Newington Surrey
plus 1 servant
 

Regards

Valda

[richarde1979]

Looking through my own Huguenot resources, it seems the family originally came from Languedoc to England, Via Germany, in early 1700's.

Daniel Vernezobre who seems to be the progenitor in England at least, was naturalised by King George I:

"Daniel Vernezobre, son of Matthew Vernezobre, by Anne his wife, born at Konisberg in Prussia. Naturalised George I Feb 17th 1724/5"

The name first appear in the Huguenot registers in London that same year, 1725, when Daniel stood as a godfather at St Martins Ongars.

He seem to have been a merchant in London, and also owned a two thousand acre estate in South Carolina, one of the first big plantations run with African slave labour there. So there may be an avenue for research in U.S archives etc too.

The main research into the family appears to have been done by a Polish researcher  Kazimierz Bem. It was his 12 page article, 'The world is not big enough: the Vernezobre family in the refuge" that was published in the Societies Proceedings in 2004 (VOL 28; PART 2, pages 187-198) and that Google Books links to in its limited preview. This should be fairly easy and cheap to get hold of (Abe Books etc. ).

Alternatively he has posted to a couple of Huguenot lists I subscribe in past (2002) with direct contact details which may still work for him:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE/2002-10/1034972599
http://searches2.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Huguenot/2002-10/1034972344

Interestingly though the last appearance of them in the baptisms of the French Church is 1753 (Daniel again standing as a godparent), there are several who joined Threadneedle Street after that, at least two possibly Daniels daughters.

Catherine Vernezobre 25 Feb 1753
Charlotte Vernisobre 3 March 1756
Esther Vernizobres  26 Oct 1760
Magdeliene Henriette Vernezobre 29 May 1785 (*With a testimonial from the Huguenot Church of Uterecht)

A Catherine Vernezobre also appears in the later charity records, when she applied to the Esther Coqueau charity between June 1814-Nov 1815, (recommended very particularly by Monsieur Ansbach of the French Church of London.)

That's the last trace I can find of them in the Huguenot records I have.

Valda, I'd agree, I would expect to find the baptism on IGI or BMDregisters too, perhaps it is more a case of the name being in one of the C of E registers badly transcribed?

Regards

Richard

[Valda]

Hi

I would have expected to pick up Hannah Amelia's baptism not matter how badly the surname was transcribed or indeed Hannah/Anna etc.

I did wonder whether this branch was of Dutch descent paternally and married into the earlier line in England in the C18th. I gave this reference earlier

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oILZAAAAMAAJ&q=%22charles+abraham+VERNEZOBRE++%22&dq=%22charles+abraham+VERNEZOBRE++%22&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&num=100&as_brr=0&cd=1

and from the Utrectht Archives
 
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.hetutrechtsarchief.nl/collectie/akten/procuratie/u256c41-48-0&ei=SaTFS62FFIuMOLLZheIM&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBEQ7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522CHARLES%2BABRAHAM%2BVERNEZOBRE%2B%2522%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

Regards

Valda

[richarde1979]

It can be a bit of a minefield finding the Huguenots once they start using the Anglican Churches. For example I once found a missing 'Bouchard' baptism down as the more Irish sounding 'Buchan' as the writing was faded and the transcriber has obviously tried to 'fit' it to the nearest name familiar to them. These can go completely under the radar as a result. And then alot of the English churches anglicised the French names and surnames for their records.  I have only past week with another researcher found my 6xg grandparents marriage Jean Ledoux and Marie Louise Ledoux, down as' John Sweet and Mary Lucy Sweet' in Stepney.

The first link again seems to be from Kazimierz Bem's 2003/4 article in the Proceedings, so he definently would appear to be the man to contact. Unfortunately I do not have a copy myself of that edition of the proceedings. It was quite usual for members of Huguenot families at this time to be established in both Holland and London, which seems to be the case, so it is possible the answers may lay with that branch of the family.

Incidently, though it is probably a little far back right now for schmick, the father of Daniel, is mentioned in the history of the little Huguenot colony in Konisberg:

In 1686, 12 Huguenot families settled down in Koenigsberg in East Prussia.
The lived in the Burggasse, which was called "Franzoesische Strasse" (French
street). Among them were the merchants Pérrad, Vernezobre, Bitaubé, Chamaret and De Lafargue, the cook Colpart, the passementerie workers Dussam andDemin, the tubmakers Valleu and Chethomme and the dyer Poincheval. The pastor was Abraham Boullay du Plessis. In 1687 came the cantor Lejeune and the judge Coulom. They all formed a colony, together with Huguenots who came to Koenigsberg prior to 1685, e.g. the merchant De l'Isle.

The swearing in of the colonists of 1690 reports 32 households:

The pastor du Plessis from Alencon, Normandy;
Pierre Renaud dit de l'Isle from Isle de France;
Paul Thévenin, Sieur des Glaireau from La Rochelle,
Charles de Rameru from the Champagne;
banker Lafargue, former Ancien of the church of Paris;
merchant Pierre Seignoret from Lyon;
merchant Jaques Renaud from St. Arnoul;
merchant Pierre Pellet;
Jean Perreaux from Orléans;
wigmaker Moyse Villeneuve from Monsempron en Argenois;
merchant Pararviere from Guiere;
merchant Jean Pallot from Cardillac en Guienne;
wigmaker Jacob Repey from Pont de Veyle en Bresse;
tailor Rolland from the Dauphiné;
Pierre Poyade from Montraval en Périgord;
Moyse Lafargue from Bordeaux;
Jaques Fontaine, a medical student from Saintonge;
Adam Bulet, women's tailor from Châtillon;
women's tailor Jérémie Bitaubé;
wig merchant Leisker from Cardet en Languedoc;
Matthieu Vernezobre Delaurieux from Villemagne en Languedoc;
shoemaker Jean Lejeune from Vitry-le-Francais en Champagne;
merchant Francois Renaud from St.Arnoul;
Samuel Laurent, wig merchant from Issoudon en Berry;
Jean Bietry from Saintonge; Francois la Brune from Aire;
Francois Barthol from Geneva;
Abraham Dunant from Geneva; Isaac Dionneuil from Bergerac;
merchant Pinet from Bergerac;
Pierre Persode from Metz;
David Gebeneu from La Rochelle;
merchant Louis Chedhommme from Paris.

(Source: Files of the Consistory, Protocol no. 46; cited from Conradt,
Koenigsberger Hugenottenbuch, Heft 1, S. 95 / Koenigsberg Book of Huguenots,
issue 1, page 95)

[schmick]

I have ordered Kazimerz Bem's article and will try to contact him. Any idea how?
Given Hanna's baptism in St George-in-the-East it would seem that Madeleine is most likely from the same family. Her death certificate sadly gives no clues - the important sections were not completed (same for her husband)
There are IGI records of Vernezobres at the British Chaplaincy in St Petersburg but these records cease in the 1790's

[richarde1979]

Schmick

It would probably be cheaper to order the editions of proceedings from Abe books, I think they have a copy for 4 pounds, rather than order direct from British library, if you've not already done so.  Alternatively you never know Mr Bem may even email you a copy for free if you can get hold of him. The two links to the Huguenot list contain his email adress (though from 2002).

Also found this on the National Arhives at Kew, a reference for John Daniels Indian Service records:

Vernezobre, John Daniel Abraham  IOR/L/MIL/9/255/22v, 30  [n.d.]

[British Library Collections, India Office Records,East India Company, 1600-1858]
Covering Date: 1775 - 1799


And this an insurance document for Magdelina Henrietta (sr?):

 MS 11936/444/823583  28 November 1808

Contents:
Insured: Madelina Henrietta Vernezobre, 9 Curtain Road, spinster



They seem a very interesting family of merchants these Vernezobre, many bankers. Have just been reading how a Matthew, (whether the same as in Konisberg, or his son?) became a Baron, and had a palace ordered to be built on his behalf by Freidrich Willhelm 1 on the Wilhemstrasse in Berlin. This later became Prince Albrechts Palace, and was HQ of Reinhard Heydrich of S.S. during WWII, but was bombed out by the allies in 1944.

I would back up Valda, definently worth contacting the society to see what else they may hold, though I imagine Mr Bem, if contacted, probably has alot of the answers to that.

[schmick]

Thanks
I tried to order the book from Abe. Unfortunately they replied that they no longer has it in stock.
So I had to order through the British Library.
I will try to contact Mr Bem

[richarde1979]

Yes apologies, I see they have the edition before Vol 1, but not the one vol 2 you need. Shame that. Still the price at the British library is not unreasonable, it looks an interesting article from the small snippets been able to read through google.

Best of luck

Richard

[richarde1979]

Hi again Schmick

Did you have any luck contacting Kazimierz Bem? Or did his article help?

It occured to me to look in Emile and Eugeene Haags book "The French Protestants: or those who have made their name in History since the early days of the Reformation".

This was published in French in the mid 1800's, and lists the more notable French protestant families. The Vernezobres do have an entry:

"Vernezobre (Salomon) of Villemagne, from a family very zealous towards the Reformed Religion, professing it already by 1575, had by his marriage to Isabelle Fizeau, at least two sons, who were established as merchants in Paris. The eldest was Matthieu. When the Royal Counsel summoned the Merchants belonging to the R.P.R (Reformed Protestant Reliigon) to abjure, by invocation of the King, he gave in to intimidation, but shortly after, he found a way to escape to Brandenburg, where he obtained from the Elector, on November 25 1686, with Paul Lafargue, of Bordeaux, Pierre Delisle and Louis Chamaret , the colossal privilage, to alone employ the ribbon making French Refugees, with a protective clause to prevent them working for others without their consent. Armed with this monopoly they established a silk ribbon making factory, at the head of which they placed Samuel Dussua and Jean Denun.

The second son of Solomon Vernezobre was called Jean. He was married at Nanteuill-les-Meaux (Register of the Church) on October 11, 1682, being aged 32 years, to Marie daughter of Louis Chedhomme, bourgeois of Paris, and Esther Pigier. By his wife he was the father to a daughter, baptized at the Huguenot Temple at Charenton under the name of Marie on 22 April 1685, at which time  the Edict of Nantes was revoked. We have reason to believe  he took refuge in England, and that  among his descendants are Charles Abraham Vernezobre established in the colony of Dutch Guyana (Surinam), and Jean Daniel Vernezobre, director of the French Hospital London in 1777.

Linked to the same Vernezobre family, is Emmanuel Vernezobre, of Nismes, who was received as Minister of Bale, with La Porte, of Cevennes, on October 16, 1692, and placed at Potzlow as pastor, where he was succeeded by Fabri and Vimielle? His son Emmanuel, born in 1716, died 28 January 1773, was a master of the French language at the Noble Acadamy of  Dresden.  He published  "Academic Course of the French language, where a Complete System of Grammar with Themes," (Dresden 1778, 1788 , 1802, 1816) and "Aesops Fables,  transmitted by Phaedra, Edited by Henri Barnard and Abraham Emmanuel Vernezobre", (Dresden, 1748, 1750, 1756)"


I think the Haags are cleary mistaken in their belief the English Vernezobres descend from Solomons second son, we know from the naturalisation record Daniel was the son of his first son Matthieu, born in Konsiburg, in Brandenburg, Prussia. I believe the Dutch branch has this same origin  too, and was started by Daniels brother Abraham around the same time 1720's. (They married sisters..see below from Jean paul Roellys site)

Abraham Vernezobre (son of Vernezobre of Brandenbourg/) died date unknown. He married Magdeleine Sophie Fizeau de Cournonteral, daughter of Jean Fizeau de Cournonteral and Magdeleine Crommelin. On 14 August 1721 at the Waloon Church of Amsterdam.

Daniel Vernezobre (son of Vernezobre of Brandenbourg/) died date unknown. He married Henriette Fizeau de Cournonteral, daughter of Jean Fizeau de Cournonteral and Magdeleine Crommelin. 1725 in London.

You may already have all this if you now have a copy of Bems article, but thought I would post anyway in case it helps any.

Regards

Richard