COMPLETED** Uniform identification please.

[Mallory]

  Hi Tipps,

 Thanks for all your time, it’s much appreciated.

  The only person I’ve been able to trace that this may be is Tom Butcher.  According to the 1891 Berkshire census, he was born about 1886 in Brightwell, Berkshire and was the son of George and Ruth. He’s actually shown as ‘Tom’ so I’m assuming that this was his proper name, and not short for ‘Thomas’. I’ve also found that two of his brothers were in the Royal Berkshire regiment and both are listed on the CWGC website.

     Thanks

     Mallory


 PS
   You said that you looked through the pensions. Can you tell me where these records are and what they contain? The reason I’d like to know is that one of my relatives received an army pension after he was blinded in WW1. 
     

[Tipps]

I found the medal card on the National Archives Documents Online (can be downloaded for £2.00).  I didn't download it, but it gave me the service number.   I've just re-checked for Tom (rather than Thomas) and found another for R Berks R, private No. 7400 who received all 3 medals and was discharged, but no pension record for him or service papers.

I checked the info below on Ancestry

WWI service records - these vary in length per person, but often shows: Parish, town, occupation, birth, height, description, agreement to serve etc.

WWI pension records - they contain the same basic info as in the service records, but also gives details of postings, reason for discharge, amount of pension received.  Again the amount of info varies greatly per person.

Looking back at the photo, the baton looks like a riding crop as used by a cavalry regiment, so it may be a prop.  But I think the braiding is regiment related. 

Let me know the name of your other ancestor and I'll look for you.

Regards, Tipps

[mmm45]

The stick is commonly known as a "swagger" stick v popular for young lads "walking out"  in their uniforms in that period

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1311&_nkw=swagger+stick&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Few examples above in link.

Ady

[Mallory]

 
 Thanks  Ady,

  I hadn’t realised that they came in so many varieties or could be specific to a regiment. It’s very difficult to make anything out in the photo so I’ll have another look if I ever find out what regiment he was in.


Hi Tipps,
  I’ve searched the web trying to identify the badge in the photo without any luck so far but it doesn’t look anything like the Royal Berkshire regiment’s.
 I found the National archive site you mentioned and after searching  it, I’ve downloaded a medal card that has three ‘Tom’ Butchers on it including Tom Royal Berks 7400. Looks like I’ll have to read the  guide to work out what the abbreviates mean   .
 If your offer’s still open, the other  name I’m interested in is Batchelor, John William  (Royal Sussex reg no. s/588). I’ve downloaded his card, and it seems to confirm what I think I know about him. He  joined (or was already in the regiment) at the start of the war, was wounded , and sent back to England 08/11/1914. Discharged 30/01/1915.       
 
     Mallory
     
 

[Tipps]

Sorry for the delay.  I've checked the Service Records and Pensions for John Batchelor, but none match with service number 588.

Regarding the cap badge:  I showed a photo to a local guy who's a keen amateur on WW1.  He immediately said it was 2 badges together.  The bugle part is from a Light Infantry regiment, but normally the two strings of the bugle are on view along with the regiment number, as I'm sure you've already noticed.  He said it looked like a Fusilier regiment badge placed over the top.  I've looked at fusilier badges http://www.britishbadge.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=fusilier&osCsid=4d6778dcca726978ce96e630fff55517 (check out the Lancashire Fusiliers Glengarry Grenade badge) and maybe he's right.  I don't know.  I can't understand why someone would want to put two badges together, unless they were perhaps wearing someone elses uniform and added their own cap badge as well.  It's certainly a mystery.

It might be worth taking the original photo into a Regimental Museum and seeing if they can help.  They often have voluntary experts available on certain days.

Sorry I've not been able to help you more.
Regards, Tipps

[neil1821]

Regarding the cap badge:  I showed a photo to a local guy who's a keen amateur on WW1.  He immediately said it was 2 badges together.  The bugle part is from a Light Infantry regiment, but normally the two strings of the bugle are on view along with the regiment number, as I'm sure you've already noticed.  He said it looked like a Fusilier regiment badge placed over the top.  I've looked at fusilier badges http://www.britishbadge.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=fusilier&osCsid=4d6778dcca726978ce96e630fff55517 (check out the Lancashire Fusiliers Glengarry Grenade badge) and maybe he's right.  I don't know.  I can't understand why someone would want to put two badges together, unless they were perhaps wearing someone elses uniform and added their own cap badge as well.  It's certainly a mystery.

He's not right.
Sorry, but that makes no sense. It's not 2 badges together (there's no conceivable reason why it would be). The part over the bugle itself is simply the bugle strings. The only debate is whether there are letters in there too, but I'd say not, hence I'm going for it being Ox & Bucks LI.
And regimental numbers went out in 1881, so it seems you're looking at badges of the wrong vintage. 

[Mallory]

Hi both,
 Sorry to have taken so long in replying to your posts.
 I’ve looked at a couple of library books on cap badges and searching the web again I think neil1821’s suggestion of the Oxon & Bucks LI seems to be the best match. I’ve found an address for the Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry Museum at Woodstock in Oxfordshire so I’ll take Tipps advice and contact them to see if they recognise the uniform as one of their's.