Baptisms

[LizzieW]

By the way, and probably a total coincidence on the 1851 census, HO107 piece 1594 folio 441 page 26 there is a Robert Padwick a labourer born in 1825 in Guildford, who is staying at Dolphin Inn Chertsey St, Stoke, where the head of the household is an Innkeeper.  So if that is your Robert Padwick, he might have decided to use that as an occupation for his father.

I think like Valda, that it seems that your Robert was probably illegitimate.  Whether his mother died or just farmed him out, I suppose you'll never know.

Lizzie

[LizzieW]

Another question, how do you know Robert was born in 1829? 

[Valda]

Hi

The actual baptism entry gives Robert's birthdate as April 1829 and that he was an orphan


I did see the 1851 census entry but I suspect it is this older man even though the entry clearly says aged 25

ROBERT PADWICK
Christening:  02 AUG 1818   Holy Trinity, Guildford, Surrey
Father:  THOMAS PADWICK 
Mother:  CHARLOTTE

Deaths Sep 1851  PADWICK  Robert    Guildford  4 132

The burial entry at Stoke next to Guildford gives his age as 30.
 

Regards

Valda

[nigelp]

From my own experience of looking at baptisms and bastardy records for illegitimate births in Witshire in the early 1800s children baptised with four names were usually illegitimate. In many cases the third name was that of the father and the last name that of the mother. Either or both of the first two names often had a connection with one of the parents.

As an example, there is a Hugh James Brine Bennett baptised at St Thomas, Salisbury in 1809. The baptism record names no father but identifies his mother as Elizabeth Bennett of Salisbury. However, bastardy records at the WRO identify his father as a Hugh Brine, a publican of Dorset. His parents never married.

Applying the above there is a possibility that Robert's mother was a Padwick and his father a Bown. There is also a possibility that his father was a Robert, Joseph or Robert Joseph Bown. If his father was a publican or victualler there is a reasonable likelihood that his parents never married.

Nigel

[tressle]

Hi Lizzie - just to answer your question about the marriage I am not connected but the certificate is online.  August 1853 he gives his age as 24 and his occupation as a Compositer.

Tressle

[Valda]

Hi

As you can see from one of Sarahcate's earlier posts Robert Joseph was not a very reliable witness, so the information he gave about his father on his marriage certificate does need to be treated with care.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,422513.0.html


There was possibly another child born to Margaret and Robert before their marriage


Births Mar 1852  PADWICK  Robert Joseph    St Geo east  1c 435
Deaths Dec 1852  Padwick  Robert Joseph     St George in the East  1c 276

Regards

Valda

[Sas2010]

To check Bastardy Records would it best to go to St Andrew Holborn or Parish records for Holborn??

Robert Joseph Bown Padwick (born in April 1829) also named his son Robert Joseph Bown Padwick born 15th Sept 1853 which I found interesting because with Robert Snr being illegitimate,i would of thought he would want to hide the fact.

I believe what Nigel says about the 4 names,in those days without directly pointing the finger at the fathers,the mothers would name the child with the father name in the child name.The Irony of all this is that with this ancestor  I thought with such a name hey he would be so easy to find,he has turned out to be the most elusive,other than the marriage certficate,two birth certficate of his 2 children he untraceable!!!

Interesting his son Robert (born 1853) started calling himself Robert Edmund/Edwin Padwick on his marriage,his children birth certficates,his sister marriage certfifcate and on his death certificate he is called Robert Edmund Padwick.

Thanks about the suggestions regarding Guildford,but for the time being i plan to stay in the Middlesex Area as this is where my Padwicks seem to stay until my grand dad Fred moves to Willesden in 1928.



Although I have found no more records of Robert Joseph Bown Padwick after 1860,his last known record is on his daughter birth certificate Margaret Selina Padwick,he is recorded as her father Robert Joseph Bown Padwick

[Valda]

Hi

The Guildford Robert Padwick (see previous post) died in 1852.
 

Naming his son for himself doesn't actually tell all the neighbours that Robert himself was born illegitimately, but if he wished to keep the connection with his father - a Bown, because he thought it was a connection that should be kept, that would be why he named his son as such. Interesting his son had no desire to keep the connection.

A bastardy order would only have been made by the poor law guardians of the parish on behalf of the mother if Robert Joseph was chargeable to the parish rates. For that, the poor law guardians would need a father to serve the order on for the payment of maintenance. That was what a Bastardy order was - a maintenance order. Robert Joseph by 1837 was an orphan, so it may have been impossible to serve a maintenance order, or he may never have been chargeable to the Holborn poor law union in the first place. The 1841 census says he was not born in Middlesex.

Bastardy orders are found in the poor law records. There seemed to be none surviving for St Andrew Holborn poor law union but by 1834 you would expect to find them in the petty (magistrates court) or quarter session records (unindexed and difficult to search).
See details here

https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Illegitimacy_in_England


The date of the Pall Mall Gazette newspaper account was 6th August 1866 so Robert was still alive on that date.


Regards

Valda

[tressle]

I did see Margaret Selina Padwick's marriage certificate and her father is named as Robert Edwin Padwick, Compositer - occupation which ties in with his marriage to Margaret Fiztgerald.  He never seems to be on the census with the family yet Margaret (mother) is always down as married.

Tressle