Thomas ASHBY _ STAINES_abt 1733/8-1813_Ashby Brewery ?

[miles_hagen_bown]

My ancestor is Mary Ashby (1758-1795) m. Simeon Warner Hagen at the Longford Meetinghouse, Staines, 29 Apr 1784. (Quaker)

The marriage certificate states that Mary’s parents were Thomas and Hannah Ashby. Mary’s father, Thomas Ashby, was living in Staines in the County of Middlesex at the time of the wedding, he was a mealman, and both Thomas and Hannah Ashby were still living in 1784.

In 1796 a Thomas Ashby (b. 1738 according to “Proceedings of the British Academy, Vol 17. pg 515, 1931) started a brewery, Ashby’s Staines Brewery. His sons became involved, it became so successful that the Ashbys started a bank. The sons and grandsons were still in the business in the mid to late 1800s. Later it was the Charles Ashby Brewery which was sold? I have also heard that the Bank (name of bank?) was sold, to Barclays?

I digress.

Is this the same Thomas Ashby as Mary Ashby's father?

More information on Thomas:

I found a certificate of marriage for a Thomas Ashby and Hannah Wickens that fits the time period of a year before the first child’s birth (1757. Mary was born in 1758), and the occupation is the same (and his father is a Maltster):

Thomas Ashby of Staines in Middlesex, Mealman, son of Robert Ashby of Shillingford in the County of Oxon [Oxfordshire], Maltster, & Mary his wife, and Hannah Wickens…

Based on this I found Thomas’ birth registry in Shillingford:

Thomas Ashby, son of Robert Ashby and Mary, his wife, was born ye 7th of ye 4th month at Worbrow 1733.

Worbrow or Warbrow (Warborough) was used on the page interchangeably, and is a Parish of Shillingford.

The catch here is the YEAR OF BIRTH.

The Thomas Ashby who founded the Brewery was stated to have a y.o.b. of 1738. I have seen a 1738 Y.O.B. on at least 1 IGI file for my Thomas which gives D. O. D. as 1813 (which matches the Quaker burial register death year).

Was there a second Thomas Ashby in Staines, about the same dates, who was the founder, or is it this Thomas Ashby, son of Robert, father of Mary?

[snowball]

Hi,
I think a connection is likely. You might be able to nail it by downloading the PCC will of Thomas Ashby, mealman of Staines, proved in 1814: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=367413&queryType=1&resultcount=8

There seem to be several other members of the Ashby family who also had their wills proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury - so their wills might help too: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=powersearch&query=last_name%3dashby%7cplace%3dstaines&catid=6&mediaarray=*&pagenumber=1&querytype=1

(You might have to cut-and-paste this second link)

Regards
Rob

[miles_hagen_bown]

OK thanks. I have Thomas' will here, it is a pretty bad copy so it will take a while to get through it if I can make out enough.

Yes it is highly likely it is the same Thomas, so I am hoping for some solid proof here.

It seems it might be "common knowledge" to someone who has followed the family through the years, as I have not, being in the States.

Your records, once someone knows where to look, are really good there, easy to find online.

Thanks for your tip.

JB

[Valda]

Hi

Besides Thomas and the other Staines Ashbys wills one of which has a transcript here

Transcript of Charles' will

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~engsurry/trnscrpt/mdx0001.txt


There is also a PCC will for a Robert Ashby of Warborough which is adjacent to Shillingford


Will of Robert Ashby, Maister of Warborough , Oxfordshire 09 March 1784 PROB 11/1114

There are two other Ashby Warborough PCC wills


Will of Joseph Ashby, Gentleman of Warborough , Oxfordshire 25 February 1812 PROB 11/1530 
Will of Lydia Ashby, Spinster of Warborough , Oxfordshire 07 February 1798 PROB 11/1301 


If the family were Quaker this website will have the images of the Quaker registers (including Thomas' age on burial in 1813)

http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/

There is a Quaker burial for a Robert Ashby in Oxfordshire in 1781 and a baptism for a Lydia in 1841 in Oxfordshire and a burial in 1797

Joseph Ashby of Shillingford appears to have been a Quaker

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8rSvYcsjB-MC&pg=PA194&dq=shillingford++%22joseph+ashby%22&lr=&num=100&cd=3#v=onepage&q=shillingford%20%22joseph%20ashby%22&f=false


Warborough and Bugbrooke Northamptonshire (which is where all the Ancestry trees tie Thomas' parents to are about 50 miles apart)

It might be worth having a look at the Warborough wills as this post on Rootsweb is indicating a connection to Staines

http://searches2.rootsweb.com/th/read/NORTHANTS/2000-03/0953881530

The post was in 2000 but it might be worth seeing if the person is still contactable. If not this is the website of the library which holds the pedigree charts mentioned in the post.

http://www.quaker.org.uk/library

I also saw this

John Hull (1755-1816)
was the eldest son of Thomas Hull and Mary Cockbolt. He entered and extended the corn milling business started by his father. He married Anna Ashby (1759-1843) daughter of Robert Ashby of Shillingford. There was one son and four daughters. He was much loved in Uxbridge, having been a leading light in the Auxiliary Bible Society, having started many schools for industry and the poor, and having many friends in the Society of Friends.

which might give a connection to another Robert Ashby who was a malster of Uxbridge and left a PCC will

Will of Robert Ashby, late Malster now Gentleman of Uxbridge , Middlesex 16 February 1813 PROB 11/1541

A slightly later post

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wood_of_Chelmsford_and_Hull/message/184?l=1

Berkshire Record Office has some minute books which cover Shillingford, signed by Robert Ashby (Margaret Wood née Ashby's great grandfather).  Leather bound and hand written, they record all the day to day events, including who went to burials, notices of marriages and fitness for marriage, or otherwise, etc.etc. .....If you ever visit the West Country do let me know and I can show you the "Ashby Book"  and "notes" and the pedigree.

Regards

Valda

[miles_hagen_bown]

Thanks so much, this is a lot of information and leads. I will go through them and see what can be learned from them.

Again thanks for your time here.

[Caliandris]

Sorry to have come late to this.  Your Ashbys were one of the most famous Quaker families in the south of England, and the Quakers keep quite stupendous records of their members.  Thus Edward Milligan who used to work in the Library at Friends House in London, has compiled a quite amazing book of reference called:  Biographical dictionary of British Quakers in commerce and industry 1775-1920.  I strongly recommend that anyone with Quaker ancestry should buy this book.  It is available in paperback (although a weighty tome) for around £30 from the bookshop at Friends House, and it is worth every penny of that.  It lists in alphabetical order all known UK Quakers working in commerce and industry, and usually gives dates for them, their parents, the names of their wives and their parents and dates, and information about their careers and children too.  I can't praise it highly enough.  I am not typing out the entry, but extracting the genealogical data:

I can tell you from the book that your ancestor was Thomas Ashby born 1733 died 1813, and that he had a number of careers including mealman, brewer and banker.  He was born at Warborough, north of Benson 7 June 1733, and he was the son of Robert Ashby (1699/1700-1781) of Shillingford and Mary Ashby (whose maiden name was Lamb, born 1707/8-1794).

His wife was Hannah Wickens (1734-1818).There were four sons and five daughters of the marriage. One assumes that her parents weren't Quakers, as her father was a physician, and at this time Quakers were still not allowed to go to University or into the professions.

Among the children of Thomas Ashby b 1733, Mr Milligan mentions Mary (born 1758) who married Simeon Warner Hagen (1751-1812). There was also a Thomas Ashby born 1762 son of Thomas Ashby b 1733, and a Thomas Ashby born 1786, son of Thomas Ashby born 1762.  Finally another Thomas Ashby born 1825 was the son of Thomas Ashby born 1786.  Ancestors can have had no idea what pain and confusion they engender by passing the same name on for generation after generation! 

Edward Milligan quotes another publication, The History of Barclays Bank, printed 1926, which appears to be a source of information about your family.

It would be very much worth your while to obtain a copy of the Milligan book, as I think you could certainly compile a family history of Thomas Ashby's generation and the succeeding one, just from the information in the book, all of which should be verifiable from the Quaker records.  The fact that Quakers were not supposed to "marry out" at this time, means that there are likely to be connections with other Quaker families for all of hose who stayed within the Society of Friends.  For example, Simeon Warner Hagen has his own entry in the book.  He is shown as a skinner and miller, born at Tooley Street in Southwark, London, only son of Simeon Hagen b 1722.

I know there are connections between the Ashbys of Staines and Quaker families in my home town of Uxbridge, Middlesex.  At least one of the Hull family of Uxbridge married into the Ashbys of Staines.  At one point the meetings were circulating from Uxbridge to Staines, and so there are a lot of connections.

I will gladly copy out the relevant information for you but can't until after Thursday as I have a talk about the Quakers of Uxbridge to write and deliver.  After that, if you need me to, I would be happy to do that for you.
best wishes
Fee

[miles_hagen_bown]

Oh Thank You. This is wonderful. If you have the time I would appreciate your copying it out. It sounds like getting hold of the books might be good too, to find out about other family members. I am still unclear about Thomas Ashby (1733-1813) and his son Thomas, who is responsible for what in the Brewery and Banks, who founded, who did what. Sounds like these books might clear that up for me.

I did find a lot of Quaker Records and made purchases of some documents online so I have a pretty good direct family outline since I last posted but still a lot to find and fill out about who they were.

----

I had a terrible time sorting out Simeon Warner Hagen too but think I have. The first, sr. was 36 when he passed. The second, jr, is the one who married Mary Ashby. They both married twice, and had a set of wives with similar names (Ann Bell, Ann Dell) which caused an inordinate amount of trouble.

Lamb / White, Wickens / Buy are connected to ASHBY next gen back. I have a bit on Wickens but not much on the others. Hannah Wickens birth is registered in the Friends records, but not sure how early parents came to Quakerism. I should look again, sometimes here in US the births are registered later in life, as a matter of record, but not necessarily born Quaker.

Bell, Dell, Ollive also married to Hagen. Ollive is interesting, having some trouble sorting out a Thomas Ollive too, father of Benjamin (my ancestor) and Thomas, whether he came to US or if it was his son. Here in US they say both but I find no definitive records of such. They were in textiles.  Ollive also has a Meakins tie and they were in London which is interesting. Warner / Jacob are farther back, Jacob from Germany, Warner from Whitechappel area in London.

These are terrific leads and I thank you for your offer too re: Thomas Hagen.

Jane

[miles_hagen_bown]

OK - I got online and purchased the Milligan book of British Quakers in Commerce… so no need to copy that all out. I am sure I will find other information of interest in the book.

I did not see the History of the Ashby Bank, but did see an inexpensive used book, Histor of the Banks by J. F. Ashby so hopefully I will be enlightened.

Again, Thanks SO Much.

[Caliandris]

Hi there,
You are very welcome, I am a passionate family historian and a passionate Quaker so mixing the two is heaven.  I am working on the history of my meeting, which started in 1658, and I love every moment of it.

The history is the History of Barclays Bank, I am assuming because they must have amalgamated with or been bought out by Barclays at some time.  I think it must be this book - P W Matthews and A W Tuke, History of Barclays Bank Limited (London: Blades, East and Blades, 1926)

As far as I can see from the Milligan book, your Thomas Ashby, born 1733, was a mealman, or dealer in corn, and established the bank 1796 which was called Thomas Ashby Senior and Sons until his death.  In 1809 he bought land for a brewery which his sons and their descendants operated.  There are lots of Ashbys in the book... Staines *was* the Ashbys as far as the Quakers were concerned.  It looks as though Thomas Ashby b1733 is the first mentioned in the book though, I can't see any earlier than him, and his father isn't listed separately although he is mentioned in Thomas's listing.

There were a lot of Quakers in business because they were prevented from going to University, joining the professions or taking public office.  They were particularly successful because they believed in plain dealing, being straightforward with the people they did business with, and providing value for money.  They often forged relationships with the people they did business with - for example I discovered that Huntley and Palmers, who made biscuits in Reading, paid for the seed corn for the farmers who supplied them, when the harvest was bad one year.

There are a lot of records at Friends House in London which are accessible to researchers, and the staff in the library are tremendously knowledgeable and helpful.  I am certain that the Quaker Family History Society would also be a great help to you... you might also want to contact Staines Quaker Meeting, because Staines may well have someone in the Meeting who is interested in the history of the meeting, as I am with Uxbridge, who may well be able to give you a lot of information.  If you need help with contacting them, let me know, feel free to send a private message through this forum.

best wishes with your researches
Fee