thanks alli
as well as finding out charles' birthplace i also have a new name, ellen, to add to my tree. as her surname is bowler i would guess that she is the daughter of joseph or perhaps an illegitimate daughter of jane,emma or sarah - i dont know what the procedure was for giving surnames to illegitimate children.
charles did also have an older son , also charles, so maybe she is one of his but for some reason is not living with him?